Hiring -- have the calls started yet
12-18-2013, 08:19 AM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
I've never understood people like you. You picked a team and the team lost. There is no more AT. But you continue attack fellow professionals in the career that YOU chose.
Man up Hoss! First, you've got your peers in the crosshairs. Second, this level of sport *****ing makes you sound like a *****. I doubt that you are a *****, so stop while you're ahead.
Man up Hoss! First, you've got your peers in the crosshairs. Second, this level of sport *****ing makes you sound like a *****. I doubt that you are a *****, so stop while you're ahead.
12-18-2013, 08:23 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
I've never understood people like you. You picked a team and the team lost. There is no more AT. But you continue attack fellow professionals in the career that YOU chose.
Man up Hoss! First, you've got your peers in the crosshairs. Second, this level of sport *****ing makes you sound like a *****. I doubt that you are a *****, so stop while you're ahead.
Man up Hoss! First, you've got your peers in the crosshairs. Second, this level of sport *****ing makes you sound like a *****. I doubt that you are a *****, so stop while you're ahead.
You can't possibly be dumb enough to think that only a very small minority of AT pilots hold a grudge against you and your "peers".
Go back to your world of rainbows and sunshine and SWAPA and SWA management's actions having no long term repercussions.
12-18-2013, 08:27 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about! The circling black helicopters must make it hard for you to concentrate. But your belief that SWAPA signed off on no international override as some form of payoff is absolutely ludicrous and impossible!
SIDE LETTER 12: ETOPS AND NEAR INTERNATIONAL FLYING
June 18, 2012 was signed WELL after SIDE LETTER 10: COMPLETE INTEGRATION OF AIRTRAN PILOTS INTO SOUTHWEST AIRLINES OPERATION September 22, 2011.
Did this "behind closed doors handshake" deal happen with all 6000 pilots that voted on this side letter? It must have been a really big room! Was this room also a time machine?
If you had any clue you would know that the reason SL 12 passed was mainly due to an absolutely huge gain on SCOPE PROTECTION. SL 12 included this provision:
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.
If you had any clue you would also understand that SL 12 was directly tied to SL 14 which included a 15% red-eye premium and established that a red-eye duty period that transited two calender days would trigger average daily guarantee on the second day.
SIDE LETTER 12: ETOPS AND NEAR INTERNATIONAL FLYING
June 18, 2012 was signed WELL after SIDE LETTER 10: COMPLETE INTEGRATION OF AIRTRAN PILOTS INTO SOUTHWEST AIRLINES OPERATION September 22, 2011.
Did this "behind closed doors handshake" deal happen with all 6000 pilots that voted on this side letter? It must have been a really big room! Was this room also a time machine?
If you had any clue you would know that the reason SL 12 passed was mainly due to an absolutely huge gain on SCOPE PROTECTION. SL 12 included this provision:
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.
If you had any clue you would also understand that SL 12 was directly tied to SL 14 which included a 15% red-eye premium and established that a red-eye duty period that transited two calender days would trigger average daily guarantee on the second day.
12-18-2013, 09:37 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 737CA
Posts: 186
If you had any clue you would know that the reason SL 12 passed was mainly due to an absolutely huge gain on SCOPE PROTECTION. SL 12 included this provision:
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.
I think the code share restrictions is the best in the industry of ANY legacy carrier. Having said that Amadeus reservation system that is coming on line here in a few months is a game changer for SWA because the IT infrastructure is going to be in place to do many things that SWA couldn't or wouldn't do before. It's the foundation for many software platforms within the company that desperately need to upgraded or done a way with. That includes code sharing with pretty much any airline in the world. The fight won't be about "near international". Its about "other international flying" that no doubt is in it's infancy at SWA but will show up at SWAPA doorstep in a few years. Instead of being reactionary about this, SWAPA needs to be proactively on this so it doesn't become front and center of negotiations in the next cycle of negotiations. Those provisions won't cost SWAPA anything because it doesn't even exist yet. That's the best part. Then on top of that the new Part 117 rules(for international) that kick in a couple of weeks already address many provisions that have been negotiated over many years in many pilot contracts are now federal law. No negotiated capital required for it.
As far as SLI is concerned, it's done. It is what it is. Their will be guys especially on the Airtran side that will not let this go away. It's going to take decades and probably retirement's for this crap to go away. Even that may not fix it. But it's already polluted with discontent, anger, anxiety, put your favorite word to it. What's a shame is it's going to be a fractured pilot group. A strong union is a unified union. A fractured union causes problems within and management knows it. There is a reason why Randy Babbitt was hired. When I was a kid I saw an airline literary go out of business for spite(hatred for management and even with in it's own unions fighting with each other). Hope it doesn't happen here.
12-18-2013, 09:39 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 138
I have a life outside of flying, and fortunately it's a pretty decent one thank you very much. Second, my statement stands. Those SW pilots immediately surrounding me on the new master list were NOT even hired at SW when I had finished upgrade.
I think the problem here from actually speaking with some of your pilots is the incredible level of ignorance to just how much seniority we lost. Most are shocked and suddenly feel uncomfortable when they hear the number (either that or it's an act). My favorite is when they say, "Oh, but you'll be able to ugrade in 2015, right?" Nope. Late 2020 under a scenario of hiring only for retirements. That's AFTER being in the left seat for seven years.
So you can call me a liar all you want, but my above statement is FACT. Let me share with you another statement of FACT. Like many of us I didn't try to get hired anywhere else after AT, to include SW.
Your statement of me not being able to get hired somewhere else reeks of your SW elitist mentality once again. We're well aware of your pilot group's view of us as a bunch of scum that wasn't good enough to get hired somewhere else. It shows through, believe me and is also quite offensive.
NEWSFLASH: Some of us did upgrade in 2-3 years and didn't have much interest in leaving.
I think the problem here from actually speaking with some of your pilots is the incredible level of ignorance to just how much seniority we lost. Most are shocked and suddenly feel uncomfortable when they hear the number (either that or it's an act). My favorite is when they say, "Oh, but you'll be able to ugrade in 2015, right?" Nope. Late 2020 under a scenario of hiring only for retirements. That's AFTER being in the left seat for seven years.
So you can call me a liar all you want, but my above statement is FACT. Let me share with you another statement of FACT. Like many of us I didn't try to get hired anywhere else after AT, to include SW.
Your statement of me not being able to get hired somewhere else reeks of your SW elitist mentality once again. We're well aware of your pilot group's view of us as a bunch of scum that wasn't good enough to get hired somewhere else. It shows through, believe me and is also quite offensive.
NEWSFLASH: Some of us did upgrade in 2-3 years and didn't have much interest in leaving.
NEWSFLASH: Get over it, it's NOT all about you!
12-18-2013, 11:30 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 675
FO wages, huh? Yeah, right. Except for all but the most senior of AT Cptns. who transition, going back to SW FO is a paycut. Plain and simple.
Here's let's do some simple math for you. Pay close attention because apparently you're not able to grasp this simple concept of AT Cptn pay being higher than SW FO pay generally speaking.
AT 12 year Cptn rate: $175/hr.
SW 12 year FO rate: $133/tfp
According to your own illustrious union, the conversion is 1.15 X tfp rate = the equivalent hourly rate.
Therefore 1.15 X $133tfp = $153/hr. So where exactly are you getting this "FO wages comment from? Better yet, don't take my word for it. Ask the Cptns that have transitioned over how much of a paycut it's been for them.
We won't even mention the international override we had for some destinations that further increased the effective hourly rate by a smidge. You know, the international override that SWAPA failed to get for you guys. That couldn't have anything to do with a behind closed doors handshake between SWAPA and SW management could it?
What do I know though? Apparently quite a few of you line pilots felt we should have been placed on probation after transitioning over. HIGHLY offensive to say the least. The nerve.....
Here's let's do some simple math for you. Pay close attention because apparently you're not able to grasp this simple concept of AT Cptn pay being higher than SW FO pay generally speaking.
AT 12 year Cptn rate: $175/hr.
SW 12 year FO rate: $133/tfp
According to your own illustrious union, the conversion is 1.15 X tfp rate = the equivalent hourly rate.
Therefore 1.15 X $133tfp = $153/hr. So where exactly are you getting this "FO wages comment from? Better yet, don't take my word for it. Ask the Cptns that have transitioned over how much of a paycut it's been for them.
We won't even mention the international override we had for some destinations that further increased the effective hourly rate by a smidge. You know, the international override that SWAPA failed to get for you guys. That couldn't have anything to do with a behind closed doors handshake between SWAPA and SW management could it?
What do I know though? Apparently quite a few of you line pilots felt we should have been placed on probation after transitioning over. HIGHLY offensive to say the least. The nerve.....
Where do you morons come up with this crap? Add about $30 to that then do your math.
Pay cut? No problem. The math doesn't lie.
Let's see: $174 * 75 * 12 = $156,600
$133 * 87 * 12 = $138,852
This is the minimum. And that's assuming anyone works for 75 hours---which they didn't until recently.
At 81.5 hours of flying the difference is----ready?----$30,000. Real dollars. Real pay cut for Airtran captains.
Pay cut? No problem. The math doesn't lie.
Let's see: $174 * 75 * 12 = $156,600
$133 * 87 * 12 = $138,852
This is the minimum. And that's assuming anyone works for 75 hours---which they didn't until recently.
At 81.5 hours of flying the difference is----ready?----$30,000. Real dollars. Real pay cut for Airtran captains.
This ^^^^^ math is about as realistic as the latest tax increase....err...."investment" proposal from your favorite liberal democrat politician. Neither assumes any change in behavior as a result of the change in rules. Libs never want to admit that taxing something more creates a disincentive to individuals to keep doing what their doing, and whaddayaknow....revenues mysteriously don't increase as much as they expected.
Similarly, your Sec-Tres crying about the $30K cut ATN captains are going to take makes no allowances for the vastly different open time and work rules those transitioning captains will find when they are on the SWA side. Laramie, I don't know where you or your Sec-Tres get a monthly average of 87 TFP for SWA FOs. My guess is a direct lift from one of our recent bid packs, 'cause that's about what our original bid lines average when first awarded, but the average SWA pilot actually earns about 105 TFP monthly. Plug that into your equation and tell me again how much the pay cut is?
So why the discrepancy? Leaner staffing (than ATN); better rigs, reroute language, and more productive trips (than ATN), plus more Premium Open Time (than ATN)...just to name a few. With the rock-star domicile seniority that many of your captains will enjoy as they arrive at SWA as senior FOs, they will be in the strata that can easily pull in 130+ TFP each month (I'm really laughing at your "paycut" now 
)
Bottom line? Your Sec-Tres is not dealing in real world numbers in spite of his "reach out" campaign. He's either coincidentally talking only to former ATN pilots who haven't been on the SWA side long enough to become familiar with & fully take advantage of the new rules. Or, he is intentionally low-balling to support an agenda. I'm sure it must be the former....
P.S. Want more proof? When was the last time you heard here (or on any other public airline forum for that matter) from any former ATN pilot crying about a paycut WHO HAS ACTUALLY CROSSED OVER? I haven't. The loudest complainers are all still on the ATN side and aren't about to let the facts get in their way (looking at you W-M, and a few others).
Similarly, your Sec-Tres crying about the $30K cut ATN captains are going to take makes no allowances for the vastly different open time and work rules those transitioning captains will find when they are on the SWA side. Laramie, I don't know where you or your Sec-Tres get a monthly average of 87 TFP for SWA FOs. My guess is a direct lift from one of our recent bid packs, 'cause that's about what our original bid lines average when first awarded, but the average SWA pilot actually earns about 105 TFP monthly. Plug that into your equation and tell me again how much the pay cut is?
So why the discrepancy? Leaner staffing (than ATN); better rigs, reroute language, and more productive trips (than ATN), plus more Premium Open Time (than ATN)...just to name a few. With the rock-star domicile seniority that many of your captains will enjoy as they arrive at SWA as senior FOs, they will be in the strata that can easily pull in 130+ TFP each month (I'm really laughing at your "paycut" now )Bottom line? Your Sec-Tres is not dealing in real world numbers in spite of his "reach out" campaign. He's either coincidentally talking only to former ATN pilots who haven't been on the SWA side long enough to become familiar with & fully take advantage of the new rules. Or, he is intentionally low-balling to support an agenda. I'm sure it must be the former....
P.S. Want more proof? When was the last time you heard here (or on any other public airline forum for that matter) from any former ATN pilot crying about a paycut WHO HAS ACTUALLY CROSSED OVER? I haven't. The loudest complainers are all still on the ATN side and aren't about to let the facts get in their way (looking at you W-M, and a few others).
12-18-2013, 02:44 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: KC135 IP
Posts: 398
Redeyes???
You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about! The circling black helicopters must make it hard for you to concentrate. But your belief that SWAPA signed off on no international override as some form of payoff is absolutely ludicrous and impossible!
SIDE LETTER 12: ETOPS AND NEAR INTERNATIONAL FLYING
June 18, 2012 was signed WELL after SIDE LETTER 10: COMPLETE INTEGRATION OF AIRTRAN PILOTS INTO SOUTHWEST AIRLINES OPERATION September 22, 2011.
Did this "behind closed doors handshake" deal happen with all 6000 pilots that voted on this side letter? It must have been a really big room! Was this room also a time machine?
If you had any clue you would know that the reason SL 12 passed was mainly due to an absolutely huge gain on SCOPE PROTECTION. SL 12 included this provision:
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.
If you had any clue you would also understand that SL 12 was directly tied to SL 14 which included a 15% red-eye premium and established that a red-eye duty period that transited two calender days would trigger average daily guarantee on the second day.
SIDE LETTER 12: ETOPS AND NEAR INTERNATIONAL FLYING
June 18, 2012 was signed WELL after SIDE LETTER 10: COMPLETE INTEGRATION OF AIRTRAN PILOTS INTO SOUTHWEST AIRLINES OPERATION September 22, 2011.
Did this "behind closed doors handshake" deal happen with all 6000 pilots that voted on this side letter? It must have been a really big room! Was this room also a time machine?
If you had any clue you would know that the reason SL 12 passed was mainly due to an absolutely huge gain on SCOPE PROTECTION. SL 12 included this provision:
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.
If you had any clue you would also understand that SL 12 was directly tied to SL 14 which included a 15% red-eye premium and established that a red-eye duty period that transited two calender days would trigger average daily guarantee on the second day.
Not trying to poke you in the eye but at 2355 in LAS I do not see any SWA aircraft pushing back for BWI or ATL. Nor do I hear SWA callsigns out of LAX and SFO. 15% override is great if you actually flew them. I fly them for 40% less than a similar seniority SWA pilot would without an override.
Redeyes are an increasing percentage of our 737 lines. Some lines have 6 redeyes a month but only get paid guarantee since the block may only come to 65 hours.
Word from management is that SWA lost its waters cert. It is fantasy to say it was not profitable to maintain it. Flying from BWI to San Juan is not more efficient hugging the coast line.
I am curious what the reality is of our SWA brothers taking on these two facets of the AT lines. It is only then that the AT 737 guys like me might actually be able to cross over.
Other words are that there will be as many as 33 AT aircraft left one 1 Jan 2015. (Again from management.) Do we get shutdown or furloughed? We have plenty to worry about on our side. It not hard to imagine why some guys are angry. Yes our average captain takes a $30,000 pay cut crossing over.
My earlier post about SWA needing to change to remain innovative addresses things like Key West. We AT were able to fly in and out full if the weather was good and make money doing it. It was one of the first markets SWA took from us yet SWA can't make money largely because of the way SWA calculates Takeoff and landing data. The limits we have been presented lately at AT on the new way to calculate our data (like SWA does) are crazy conservative. I like to err on the side of caution but we have never taken aircraft off prepared surfaces like that seems to happen at SWA. (3-4 last year?) Denver, White plains?
I just worry that there may be an inherent lack of standardization on the SWA side. I will have to wait to see but that is the feedback I have received from guys that have crossed over already.
I guess it boils down to I would like to have eyes and ears on what the truth is on both sides. I do know this. A guy hired four months after me is 1300 numbers ahead of me on the seniority list. Not very equitable in my mind.
Again I am leaving that behind but your post on redeyes got me going since I have to fly them a bunch.
Fly Safe
Boogie
12-18-2013, 04:35 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Not trying to poke you in the eye but at 2355 in LAS I do not see any SWA aircraft pushing back for BWI or ATL. Nor do I hear SWA callsigns out of LAX and SFO. 15% override is great if you actually flew them. I fly them for 40% less than a similar seniority SWA pilot would without an override.
Redeyes are an increasing percentage of our 737 lines. Some lines have 6 redeyes a month but only get paid guarantee since the block may only come to 65 hours.
Word from management is that SWA lost its waters cert. It is fantasy to say it was not profitable to maintain it. Flying from BWI to San Juan is not more efficient hugging the coast line.
I am curious what the reality is of our SWA brothers taking on these two facets of the AT lines. It is only then that the AT 737 guys like me might actually be able to cross over.
Other words are that there will be as many as 33 AT aircraft left one 1 Jan 2015. (Again from management.) Do we get shutdown or furloughed? We have plenty to worry about on our side. It not hard to imagine why some guys are angry. Yes our average captain takes a $30,000 pay cut crossing over.
My earlier post about SWA needing to change to remain innovative addresses things like Key West. We AT were able to fly in and out full if the weather was good and make money doing it. It was one of the first markets SWA took from us yet SWA can't make money largely because of the way SWA calculates Takeoff and landing data. The limits we have been presented lately at AT on the new way to calculate our data (like SWA does) are crazy conservative. I like to err on the side of caution but we have never taken aircraft off prepared surfaces like that seems to happen at SWA. (3-4 last year?) Denver, White plains?
I just worry that there may be an inherent lack of standardization on the SWA side. I will have to wait to see but that is the feedback I have received from guys that have crossed over already.
I guess it boils down to I would like to have eyes and ears on what the truth is on both sides. I do know this. A guy hired four months after me is 1300 numbers ahead of me on the seniority list. Not very equitable in my mind.
Again I am leaving that behind but your post on redeyes got me going since I have to fly them a bunch.
Fly Safe
Boogie
Redeyes are an increasing percentage of our 737 lines. Some lines have 6 redeyes a month but only get paid guarantee since the block may only come to 65 hours.
Word from management is that SWA lost its waters cert. It is fantasy to say it was not profitable to maintain it. Flying from BWI to San Juan is not more efficient hugging the coast line.
I am curious what the reality is of our SWA brothers taking on these two facets of the AT lines. It is only then that the AT 737 guys like me might actually be able to cross over.
Other words are that there will be as many as 33 AT aircraft left one 1 Jan 2015. (Again from management.) Do we get shutdown or furloughed? We have plenty to worry about on our side. It not hard to imagine why some guys are angry. Yes our average captain takes a $30,000 pay cut crossing over.
My earlier post about SWA needing to change to remain innovative addresses things like Key West. We AT were able to fly in and out full if the weather was good and make money doing it. It was one of the first markets SWA took from us yet SWA can't make money largely because of the way SWA calculates Takeoff and landing data. The limits we have been presented lately at AT on the new way to calculate our data (like SWA does) are crazy conservative. I like to err on the side of caution but we have never taken aircraft off prepared surfaces like that seems to happen at SWA. (3-4 last year?) Denver, White plains?
I just worry that there may be an inherent lack of standardization on the SWA side. I will have to wait to see but that is the feedback I have received from guys that have crossed over already.
I guess it boils down to I would like to have eyes and ears on what the truth is on both sides. I do know this. A guy hired four months after me is 1300 numbers ahead of me on the seniority list. Not very equitable in my mind.
Again I am leaving that behind but your post on redeyes got me going since I have to fly them a bunch.
Fly Safe
Boogie
15% override is great if you actually flew them. I fly them for 40% less than a similar seniority SWA pilot would without an override.
I agree that is unfortunate, but every small improvement we can eek out will benefit us all in 12 months.
Redeyes are an increasing percentage of our 737 lines. Some lines have 6 redeyes a month but only get paid guarantee since the block may only come to 65 hours.
Soon that will change. Any redeye placed on the end of a pairing will have to pay ADG for the last calendar day that included a duty period.
Word from management is that SWA lost its waters cert.
Word on this side contradicts that. Since we have very few WATRS certified A/C (only 175 seat -800's) it makes sense that deploying those A/C on more profitable routes increases yields.
Do we get shutdown or furloughed?
As of 1/1/15 EVERYONE is covered by the SWA CBA whether transitioned or not, that is indisputable. It seems counter intuitive to think SWA is currently hiring pilots only to furlough them far less than 12 months after they trained them. In the end, current new hires may have a reason to be nervous, but I see little reason for those that were on either seniority list prior to constructive notice to be genuinely worried.
We AT were able to fly in and out full if the weather was good and make money doing it.
SWA operates on a completely different business model. Hub and spoke is quickly being dismantled.
I just worry that there may be an inherent lack of standardization on the SWA side. I will have to wait to see but that is the feedback I have received from guys that have crossed over already.
Make that judgement when you get here. This is my 3rd airline and I see it no different than the other two.
A guy hired four months after me is 1300 numbers ahead of me on the seniority list. Not very equitable in my mind.
There is really nothing I can say at this point that will alter the SLI and since we all voted astoundingly in the affirmative we will all just need to learn to live with it.
Again I am leaving that behind but your post on redeyes got me going since I have to fly them a bunch.
Hopefully when all are transitioned you will be able to bid away from them or at least be adequately compensated for the inconvenience.
12-18-2013, 06:51 PM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 341
Oh, and I've got news for ya bud. My "peers" are in more than just my crosshairs. I'd like to believe that what comes around goes around in this industry.
You can't possibly be dumb enough to think that only a very small minority of AT pilots hold a grudge against you and your "peers".
Go back to your world of rainbows and sunshine and SWAPA and SWA management's actions having no long term repercussions.
You can't possibly be dumb enough to think that only a very small minority of AT pilots hold a grudge against you and your "peers".
Go back to your world of rainbows and sunshine and SWAPA and SWA management's actions having no long term repercussions.
12-18-2013, 09:51 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: KC135 IP
Posts: 398
Some thought on your reply
Boogie, I'm sorry things are sliding on your side and as a realist I'm afraid it will probably get worse before it get's better. SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible. In general that means exploiting the cheaper option as long as possible. The only good thing I can say is in 12 months we will all be on the same contract, no matter what.
Do we get shutdown or furloughed?
As of 1/1/15 EVERYONE is covered by the SWA CBA whether transitioned or not, that is indisputable. It seems counter intuitive to think SWA is currently hiring pilots only to furlough them far less than 12 months after they trained them. In the end, current new hires may have a reason to be nervous, but I see little reason for those that were on either seniority list prior to constructive notice to be genuinely worried.
A guy hired four months after me is 1300 numbers ahead of me on the seniority list. Not very equitable in my mind.
There is really nothing I can say at this point that will alter the SLI and since we all voted astoundingly in the affirmative we will all just need to learn to live with it.
Again I am leaving that behind but your post on redeyes got me going since I have to fly them a bunch.
Hopefully when all are transitioned you will be able to bid away from them or at least be adequately compensated for the inconvenience.
Do we get shutdown or furloughed?
As of 1/1/15 EVERYONE is covered by the SWA CBA whether transitioned or not, that is indisputable. It seems counter intuitive to think SWA is currently hiring pilots only to furlough them far less than 12 months after they trained them. In the end, current new hires may have a reason to be nervous, but I see little reason for those that were on either seniority list prior to constructive notice to be genuinely worried.
A guy hired four months after me is 1300 numbers ahead of me on the seniority list. Not very equitable in my mind.
There is really nothing I can say at this point that will alter the SLI and since we all voted astoundingly in the affirmative we will all just need to learn to live with it.
Again I am leaving that behind but your post on redeyes got me going since I have to fly them a bunch.
Hopefully when all are transitioned you will be able to bid away from them or at least be adequately compensated for the inconvenience.
As far as I know the SLI says all furloughs will come from the AT side first. Yes why furlough when you are hiring. As you stated "SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible" What is to say they don't furlough those left at AT while we wait for training slots? That would solve the problem of AT pilots as captains (near term). Will the CBA cover us while on the AT side while still under the AT contract or will the SLI take precedent? Who is to say SWA doesn't shut us down furlough us despite any protections and stonewall as long as possible while lawyers hash it out. I can't imagine SWAPA too worried about anything on our side of the partition. Again " SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible".
Just saying we have concerns and no assurances based on implied promises that fell far short.
Example 717's 'till 2017, TPA 717 Base, 737s to cross over first, Everyone at SWA by mid 2014.
Making the best of it though, I got the holidays off for the first time! First choice of vacation next year.
I do appreciate the thoughtful reply
Thanks
Boogie
P.S I do chuckle at the Flatish won't Fly" bag tags, keeping in mind I do the same job for 40% less.
SWA may have great scope but if you think about it SWA undercuts SWAPA by paying AT pilot less for routes you could be cashing in on.
"SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible." I do realize it all about business, and I view this whole merger with that in mind and try not to take it too personal.
Last edited by Boogie Nights; 12-18-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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