shoelu

Neither......

WHACKMASTER

Bullschit!

WHACKMASTER

Slow-rolling, huh? SWAPA's proposals where insulting at best. You'll have to forgive us if we weren't hot to trot on agreeing to such gems as probation for all AT pilots after transitioning over.

Yeah, you read that right folks. They actually had the nerve to propose that. That should give everyone some insight into the elitist mentality of SW pilots.

mulcher

Making FO wages. Way to go stud. Wow big bad 737 CA. You are awesome! Hate to tell you, but there are plenty of SWA pilots not happy with the deal. Get over it move on or out. What was this thread about again?

WHACKMASTER

FO wages, huh? Yeah, right. Except for all but the most senior of AT Cptns. who transition, going back to SW FO is a paycut. Plain and simple.

Here's let's do some simple math for you. Pay close attention because apparently you're not able to grasp this simple concept of AT Cptn pay being higher than SW FO pay generally speaking.

AT 12 year Cptn rate: $175/hr.
SW 12 year FO rate: $133/tfp

According to your own illustrious union, the conversion is 1.15 X tfp rate = the equivalent hourly rate.

Therefore 1.15 X $133tfp = $153/hr. So where exactly are you getting this "FO wages comment from? Better yet, don't take my word for it. Ask the Cptns that have transitioned over how much of a paycut it's been for them.

We won't even mention the international override we had for some destinations that further increased the effective hourly rate by a smidge. You know, the international override that SWAPA failed to get for you guys. That couldn't have anything to do with a behind closed doors handshake between SWAPA and SW management could it?

What do I know though? Apparently quite a few of you line pilots felt we should have been placed on probation after transitioning over. HIGHLY offensive to say the least. The nerve.....

SlipKid

None of those things had one iota to do with the SLI due to the AT acquisition. Capitulation is par for the course for SNApA, and I assure you that there was no quid pro quo re: the SLI, as Gary does not give SNApA that kind of consideration. He dictates, and SNApA sells it.

You're giving SNApA way too much credit and Gary couldn't give a **** what SNAPA wants or thinks. They were and are and have always been a puppet of management, and in the above examples, as welll as the SLI, bent over like they always do and went along for the ride.

IMHO, we'd have fared much better had he actually taken our side on the thing.

As for the rest of your classy post, I understand Delta is hiring.

Scout

Most likely this is a lie. If you upgraded when AT was growing and only spent 2-3 years in the right seat, congratulations! When SWA and AT was doing 2-3 year upgrades everyone referred to them as “bush league” airlines. If you’ve been at AT that long it’s only because no one else would hire you. The same is true of hundreds of SWA Captains also who were hired in the “early” days… and they know it. That’s the reality!
Now if you feel you’re better that someone else because of something in your “past life,” ….then get over it. Be honest with yourself (B737NG Captain), you don’t give a rat’s ass what your FO’s did before they humbled themselves and became your FO. Now the shoe is one the other foot.
Get a life.

WHACKMASTER

I have a life outside of flying, and fortunately it's a pretty decent one thank you very much. Second, my statement stands. Those SW pilots immediately surrounding me on the new master list were NOT even hired at SW when I had finished upgrade.

I think the problem here from actually speaking with some of your pilots is the incredible level of ignorance to just how much seniority we lost. Most are shocked and suddenly feel uncomfortable when they hear the number (either that or it's an act). My favorite is when they say, "Oh, but you'll be able to ugrade in 2015, right?" Nope. Late 2020 under a scenario of hiring only for retirements. That's AFTER being in the left seat for seven years.

So you can call me a liar all you want, but my above statement is FACT. Let me share with you another statement of FACT. Like many of us I didn't try to get hired anywhere else after AT, to include SW.

Your statement of me not being able to get hired somewhere else reeks of your SW elitist mentality once again. We're well aware of your pilot group's view of us as a bunch of scum that wasn't good enough to get hired somewhere else. It shows through, believe me and is also quite offensive.

NEWSFLASH: Some of us did upgrade in 2-3 years and didn't have much interest in leaving.

itsokimapilot

I've never understood people like you. You picked a team and the team lost. There is no more AT. But you continue attack fellow professionals in the career that YOU chose.

Man up Hoss! First, you've got your peers in the crosshairs. Second, this level of sport *****ing makes you sound like a *****. I doubt that you are a *****, so stop while you're ahead.

shoelu

You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about! The circling black helicopters must make it hard for you to concentrate. But your belief that SWAPA signed off on no international override as some form of payoff is absolutely ludicrous and impossible!

SIDE LETTER 12: ETOPS AND NEAR INTERNATIONAL FLYING
June 18, 2012 was signed WELL after SIDE LETTER 10: COMPLETE INTEGRATION OF AIRTRAN PILOTS INTO SOUTHWEST AIRLINES OPERATION September 22, 2011.

Did this "behind closed doors handshake" deal happen with all 6000 pilots that voted on this side letter? It must have been a really big room! Was this room also a time machine?

If you had any clue you would know that the reason SL 12 passed was mainly due to an absolutely huge gain on SCOPE PROTECTION. SL 12 included this provision:
4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.

If you had any clue you would also understand that SL 12 was directly tied to SL 14 which included a 15% red-eye premium and established that a red-eye duty period that transited two calender days would trigger average daily guarantee on the second day.