Originally Posted by Boogie Nights

Really??? Don't bring up Rich. No matter how you felt about his views it is disrespectfiul

Originally Posted by Boogie Nights

To the military guys who are looking at this take a step back, take a breath and relax. This seems much more dysfunctional than it is. Everywhere there are people who are, and can not be happy.

I am an AT FO with 12 years active duty and 12 year reserve. I know how this looks to you. Unions will become a big part of your life like it or not.

I have some major disappointments (putting it mildly) but I am putting it behind me (still some irritations, but that is more to do with the ground operations than the merger).

I figure if I do not like it I can go somewhere else. That said I am not going to complain about it because it is a choice I have made.

My reason for staying are many. When I cross over I will have over a 1,500 guys below me. I will be able to get a domicile near my home, I will get a 40% pay raise. Hopefully some job stability with a company that makes money. That said I will like only make captain just before I retire (12-18 years depending on growth)

Lets face it the AT guys got hosed. No reach around. That said griping about it does no good. We are pilots however, and will complain. We like control and get upset when it is taken out of our hands.

Before you go to SWA ask yourself where you want to be 15 years from now. I know getting out of the military you think a good paying job is key, and it is but there is a lot that goes with it.

Having dealt with the SWA side (ground ops) and the AT side I can say I preferred the OPs at AT. Variety of reasons, but really it all come down to attitude, sense of urgency, and getting the plane pushed on time. Understand also AT had/has its own issues.

SWA has many inefficiencies built into their system. I am sure there are good reasons for them but I suspect most are technology related and because of a certain arrogance. Many would say that arrogance is deserved but really it just gets in the way of innovation.

I really believe (I hope) SWA is on the verge of a major change. I commute a lot on many different products and if SWA wants to be competitive it will have to change or lose money. With a leaner and meaner industry and SWA is no long the low cost carrier it was, it will have to adapt. SWA was long the underdog and now it has grown up. With growth comes change.

A lot is made about the culture. I am sure it is great. For the most part SWA people I meet are very nice. I am an outsider and I am treated as such. I find if I treat people with respect (one on one) I get it returned. I really do not have much to complain about vis a vis the SWA pilots I have met and I look forward to flying with them. My issues most deal with ground ops. Yeah we got hosed but I am past that. I can't fix it. I can only do the best job I can and hope it makes a difference. Yeah I know I have the boy-scout attitude but I think that is what is needed

Remember when dealing with people, reading posts there are the 10%-ers everywhere and they create 99% of the dysfunction.

I do a good job at AT and I will do a great job at SWA, but that is more my personal ethic when approaching any job, than a result of any certain culture.

Remember an airline is a business and its goal is to make money and that should focus your perspective. If you think you will kick back in your airline job and enjoy the good life you may be mistaken. Working for an airline is definitely work. Some days harder than others but nothing will come your way for free. You will be away from home. You will ask "what are they thinking?" You will have to deal with a million moving parts of the system.

I am looking forward to joining SWA but with a cautious attitude.

Good luck to all who apply, look forward to meeting those that are hired, and lets all succeed going forward. With success will come growth with growth we will have a happier pilot group.

Take Care
Boogie

Originally Posted by AF2Navy

MaxPowers. Same to you.........if you find yourself in a crappy situation, take ownership and fix it............life is too short to be a negative nancy. I don't remember ever saying I was going to the 121 world..........the more I read the whining from this group, the more I'm reminded to stay away.

Originally Posted by Boogie Nights

To the military guys who are looking at this take a step back, take a breath and relax. This seems much more dysfunctional than it is. Everywhere there are people who are, and can not be happy.

I am an AT FO with 12 years active duty and 12 year reserve. I know how this looks to you. Unions will become a big part of your life like it or not.

I have some major disappointments (putting it mildly) but I am putting it behind me (still some irritations, but that is more to do with the ground operations than the merger).

I figure if I do not like it I can go somewhere else. That said I am not going to complain about it because it is a choice I have made.

My reason for staying are many. When I cross over I will have over a 1,500 guys below me. I will be able to get a domicile near my home, I will get a 40% pay raise. Hopefully some job stability with a company that makes money. That said I will like only make captain just before I retire (12-18 years depending on growth)

Lets face it the AT guys got hosed. No reach around. That said griping about it does no good. We are pilots however, and will complain. We like control and get upset when it is taken out of our hands.

Before you go to SWA ask yourself where you want to be 15 years from now. I know getting out of the military you think a good paying job is key, and it is but there is a lot that goes with it.

Having dealt with the SWA side (ground ops) and the AT side I can say I preferred the OPs at AT. Variety of reasons, but really it all come down to attitude, sense of urgency, and getting the plane pushed on time. Understand also AT had/has its own issues.

SWA has many inefficiencies built into their system. I am sure there are good reasons for them but I suspect most are technology related and because of a certain arrogance. Many would say that arrogance is deserved but really it just gets in the way of innovation.

I really believe (I hope) SWA is on the verge of a major change. I commute a lot on many different products and if SWA wants to be competitive it will have to change or lose money. With a leaner and meaner industry and SWA is no long the low cost carrier it was, it will have to adapt. SWA was long the underdog and now it has grown up. With growth comes change.

A lot is made about the culture. I am sure it is great. For the most part SWA people I meet are very nice. I am an outsider and I am treated as such. I find if I treat people with respect (one on one) I get it returned. I really do not have much to complain about vis a vis the SWA pilots I have met and I look forward to flying with them. My issues most deal with ground ops. Yeah we got hosed but I am past that. I can't fix it. I can only do the best job I can and hope it makes a difference. Yeah I know I have the boy-scout attitude but I think that is what is needed

Remember when dealing with people, reading posts there are the 10%-ers everywhere and they create 99% of the dysfunction.

I do a good job at AT and I will do a great job at SWA, but that is more my personal ethic when approaching any job, than a result of any certain culture.

Remember an airline is a business and its goal is to make money and that should focus your perspective. If you think you will kick back in your airline job and enjoy the good life you may be mistaken. Working for an airline is definitely work. Some days harder than others but nothing will come your way for free. You will be away from home. You will ask "what are they thinking?" You will have to deal with a million moving parts of the system.

I am looking forward to joining SWA but with a cautious attitude.

Good luck to all who apply, look forward to meeting those that are hired, and lets all succeed going forward. With success will come growth with growth we will have a happier pilot group.

Take Care
Boogie

Originally Posted by MaxPowers

Thanks for the laugh, Sport, although I have to say, it is quite humorous getting advice on handling our merger from someone who hasn't even scored his first civilian flying job. . . . Kind of like getting life advice from my 21 year-old. I



If you only knew how stupid this sounds. Save it and re-read it in a few years.



This might be the funniest part yet, but it's sooooo close. Too close to call. Thanks again for the laughs.

MP

Originally Posted by AF2Navy

Boogie - thanks for the positive perspective and the reminder about the 10%-ers.

Originally Posted by AF2Navy

MP -

1. I never said anything about not having a civilian flying job. Just not a 121 job. MIL just happens to be the current position. I never said I was giving advice about your 121 merger either, I was referring to your outlook/attitude in general, life gives you lemons, make lemonade, yada, yada, yada.

2. Negative, wrong assumption again. I've had multiple assignments(jobs) where I had more total time(experience), but the guy/gal who signed for the plane had more time in type. As well as I've had co-pilots(FOs) who had more total time than myself, but I had more time in type, so I was the one who signed for the jet. That comment has been true for me over the past decade, so yeah, I can re-read it again and again, and in a few years, still true........no problem.

3. On a positive note, despite all the negativity from the 10%-ers, I have learned a lot, so I thank you all for the input........especially since all this input had nothing to do with "hiring --- have the calls started yet". Jeesh, where would I be without you guys/gals!

Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo

Thanks to the way SW and SWAPA conducted themselves, 75% of AirTran pilots are now 10%-ers.

Originally Posted by Rolf

Whack,
The process agreement required good-faith negotiations by both sides. Which side was slow-rolling again?