4th Level

Really Frank?

Since SWAPA had exactly ZERO input on the decision to buy you guys, maybe you should focus your angst at the man who did.

Your attitude is duly noted. Guess what? We're not happy either.

And shockingly Frank - it aint' all about you. There are plenty of hired-not-acquired SWA pilots that gave up everything to start over at the bottom. Only to be displaced by those who didn't.

We welcome you over - just drop the victimized attitude. You're not the only one who got burned.

4th Level

[QUOTE=Elmer Fudd;1507454]4th -

I have no dog in this fight & have no intention of making this "personal".

My comments were a reflection of the following:

1) Ex-ATA Captain, now at a regional, on the JS. Long story about how SW came in & screwed them. He stayed until the end, & watched as all the assets (MDW gates & aircraft) were sucked up, & the pilots discarded.

He can believe whatever he wants, however the the reality is SWA infused AT with cash to keep them afloat. Their own management is what sadly sunk them. AT was a great airline - read the details here - ATA Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2) Very senior SW DFW Captain & FO - lengthy discussion about how SW "puts people in their place" during mergers. The CA said basically "We showed the Morris guys how it is done & now are showing the AT guys the same thing". The FO agreed, (he looked too young to know about the Morris merger), & said the AT guys "were lucky to be at SW, & should appreciate what they get", no matter what happens to them.

I assume you mean DAL based, since we don't even fly to DFW. What happened with Morris (I was there) was before current acquisition language. Morris Air was also 200 pilots without a union.

3) Discussion with AT FO - he said that he was "happy" SW bought them, but that all the AT CAs would be adversely affected by the merger. IOW, they would all be FOs & that the ultimate winner in the deal was the SW pilots. He said the merger would translate into him losing a few hundred thousand dollars, since he was close to upgrade at the time of the merger, & was now SOL.

Ask the FO I flew with who gave up his Airtran Captain seat 5 years ago to start over at the bottom of the SWA list how he feels about that. His SWA upgrade has been delayed at least a decade.

I don't know any SW guys & have no real opinion about what they do, or how they conduct their business. I was just relating an overall opinion based on the multiple conversations stated above. It's kind of obvious why I could reach the conclusion I did. If the info is incorrect, I would defer to someone with more accurate info, since I was not personally involved with any of these incidents.

Exactly. "You don't know any SW guys"

Frank Rizzo

I agree SWAPA likely had zero input in that decision, however they absolutely played a major role in the screwing of our pilots. SW guys were on this very forum warning us to "be reasonable" or face the wrath of GK long before the actual threats were made. You guys were in bed together from the beginning. Nobody outside of SW doubts that.

I'm not going to rehash the SLI with you again, but remember, RSW pilots voluntarily gave up whatever they had to go to work for SW. That was a personal choice. Most of us never wanted to work there and don't feel as if we need to make personal sacrifices because you did. Sorry.


It was was Greg's choice to do that. Sorry, no sympathy for him no matter how much he stomps his feet.

Smokey23

You are making it sound as if SWA, SWAPA, and "SW Pilots" are one in the same. They aren't. The "SW guys" on this forum were cautioning ATN-ALPA to not overplay their hand. Unfortunately, those warnings went unheeded and look where we are.

I'm sorry you are so bitter and have already made the decision to hate life as a SWA pilot. If that is truly your belief, do yourself and those around you a favor and set a new course. You are still the PIC of your career. Many others are about to start hiring. The golden handcuffs are only as much of limitation as you choose to make them. Choose wisely & in the best interests of your family.

4th Level

You're delusional. Nobody on the SWA seniority list had any clue about buying you guys - we all found out at the same time. Trust me, had we known, we would have positioned ourselves better.

Correct. With the reasonable assumption that their hard earned seniority would not be pulled out from under them.

Says the guy who is constantly wanting sympathy for his situation.

And the guy I flew with was hardly "stomping his feet", nor was he named Greg.

Frank Rizzo

...but it's ok to do that to us. I guess we gave up nothing to get where we are so it's ok to phuck us over.

Frank Rizzo

SW pilots bargaining agent is SWAPA, therefore they are one in the same.

Overplay our hand? Is that what we did by declining a crappy seniority integration proposal? Since when is arbitration a radical idea?

We are where we are because SW and SWAPA conspired to screw us over. Management doesn't care who sits in the left seat or how much seniority AT pilots retain. SWAPA cares, and management stepped in to fight their battles for them. An arbitrated list would have likely looked much different and SWAPA knew that.

Rolf

Frank,

ATN-ALPA were stalling and slow rolling the negotiations to get to the arbitration deadline. That was clearly their strategy from the beginning.
Arbitration only works if the result is tolerable to both sides. SWA wasn't going to risk an East/West type situation. IF the negotiations had been done in good faith, the company would have stayed out of this. The end result could have been better for both of our groups.

CanyonBlue

Rizzo,

Rolf and others have it right. ALPA's only game plan was arbitration. That hurt the line pilots of AirTran. And yes, the MEC overplayed that hand by voting down the agreement.

Plenty on this forum said you'd get ONE good bite at the SLI apple. That's exactly what happened. Then your MEC choked on that one bite. Game over.

Frank Rizzo

I don't know where you guys get this from.

SWAPA was still demanding a staple when GK injected himself into negotiations.