Arbitrator rules in favor of ALPA
10-13-2013, 01:34 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
shoelu - SWA does many things right. I will agree with you, they are some things they do not do very well. ETOPS, for example. Spin up on training from the ground up and turn it off. Costs money.
4th level - I may have my timeline messed up, but you talk to any ex-ATA and they will tell you SWA squeezed them out of the industry. The survivors are the ones that left before the shutdown.
4th level - I may have my timeline messed up, but you talk to any ex-ATA and they will tell you SWA squeezed them out of the industry. The survivors are the ones that left before the shutdown.
As far as ETOPS is concerned I will agree they have not done it very well and the reason is one of the most common reasons I see for problems....they have a desire to reinvent the wheel every time they start a new endeavor. They bought the ATA certificate IIRC which I believe had ETOPS authorization. Why not just slightly modify that program and make it the SWA program. I believe the reason for the spin up was an imminent need for a program to start Hawaii flying but when they modified the Hawaii plan they no longer had a need for ETOPS. We don't have an ETOPS destination in our entire system yet so ETOPS desire took a backseat. I don't think the Feds will even allow you to certify a program and then let it sit idle while still remaining certified. So, with no ETOPS destinations there is no ETOPS program.
10-13-2013, 02:10 PM
#42
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
Whether anyone likes it or not, SWA bought AirTran. Not a merger. SWA can and will do what they want. This is not SWAPA's rodeo. It is SWA. SWA will do what they feel is the lowest cost. They have been using that policy for over 40 years. Look at everything SWA does, lowest cost. Period.
Look at SWA buying ATA. Ran ATA into the ground. Did not bring all of the folks over. Only some of them. Hired some off the street. Not all.
Careful what you wish for.
Look at SWA buying ATA. Ran ATA into the ground. Did not bring all of the folks over. Only some of them. Hired some off the street. Not all.
Careful what you wish for.
Read the SEC and DOJ filings SW submitted. Read our CBA.
They can absolutely make threats and ultimatums, nothing illegal about that. Unethical... Absolutely, but not illegal. Disregard the conditions that they agreed to uphold as a condition of governmental approval is a different story. Non-integration is a clear cut violation of our CBA as well.
Also, it was a merger. They went to a single operating certificate. That's a merger. Same as NW/DAL.
To say that they can do whatever they want is a gross simplification and shows a complete lack of understanding.
BTW, I never wished for it. If I wanted to work for SW I would have applied there.
10-14-2013, 07:44 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Frank - you can be bitter all you want. Fine.
Things will not get better on either side if we do not move on. SWA is a business, period. All we do is move airplanes from point A to point B. Once you understand that, things will get better for you.
I am not happy with many things SWA has done recently. But I still have a job, that pays a decent wage. I vote my confidence with the company and with my union. Many times I vote NO.
Things will not get better on either side if we do not move on. SWA is a business, period. All we do is move airplanes from point A to point B. Once you understand that, things will get better for you.
I am not happy with many things SWA has done recently. But I still have a job, that pays a decent wage. I vote my confidence with the company and with my union. Many times I vote NO.
10-14-2013, 04:01 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
This has nothing to do with my bitterness level. You said SW bought AT and they can do whatever they want. That is simply untrue. SW had contracts and DOJ issues to deal with.
So you're saying SW is a business and we move airplanes.. Ok. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up for me. 
Things will not get better on either side if we do not move on. SWA is a business, period. All we do is move airplanes from point A to point B. Once you understand that, things will get better for you.
10-15-2013, 05:06 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Frank - you can say what you want. You can think what you want. SWA can and will do what they want even if it upsets you. They have the legal team to squash little people like you and I. Just move your airplane from point A to point B.
You will not win this one. Move on. I have said I am not happy with alot of what SWA does. Life is short, move on.
You will not win this one. Move on. I have said I am not happy with alot of what SWA does. Life is short, move on.
10-15-2013, 05:15 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Frank - I do not have any beef with you or anyone else that is still on the AirTran side of the partition. I am actually on your side. Fight your fight if that will make you happy. You have to know what battles to fight and when to fold your cards.
10-21-2013, 03:48 PM
#47
GAME ON!!!!
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 131
10-22-2013, 06:50 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Elmer - when has ANY airline or union for that matter has taken care of the "new" airline that was acquired/merged with. I believe it does not happen well. Any acquisition or merger is never pretty. It only lines the pockets of upper management and causes much pain with the pilots on both sides.
The senior union guys will eat the young every time. Timing is everything.
The senior union guys will eat the young every time. Timing is everything.
10-22-2013, 06:57 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
My last trip was with a Morris guy. When I asked him about his integration back in the day his response was: "In hindsight, it was the best thing that ever happened to my career."
10-22-2013, 08:25 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 127
Oh, except for the -300, and the technology. That's pretty much still the same.
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