blakman7

I thought you'd be the one to come to the rescue, you never let me down. Good informative post as usual but I think you're defending the wrong point buddy. It's not picking up trips that I'm talking about. I'm specifically speaking of the "milking the company" comment made by your colleague. Calling out for a trip and then picking up another for premium pay is a form of "milking the company" no matter which way you look at it. You seriously didn't get the point that I was making?

shoelu

If your talking about calling in sick for a scheduled trip on your board in order to pick up a trip at premium pay from open time, you're crazy! I won't try and dispute that it has never happened, because I'm sure it actually has. But, to insinuate that is a common or ordinary practice by any definition of those words is ludicrous! How dumb do you think the folks in management are? That may fly once in your tenure like the sick call on Christmas or the illness during the trip after your vacation, but it surely is not, nor will ever be a practice that is allowed to happen with impunity.

MaxPowers

The fact that a SWA guy is saying this to an AirTran guy is an irony that will be recognized by many.

Most of us would be able to hold Captain just fine, if our seniority wasn't taken from us at gunpoint.

The top two thirds of our Captains were hired 1994-2001. The most junior SWA Capt is a 2004 hire. Get your facts straight, Pal.

Smokey23

Not entirely sure I get your drift here, but I suspect it is from the "AirTran is just like SWA circa 1990" argument. Other than fleet size, that is a highly debatable premise. An obvious difference, of course, is that SWA did not get purchased by another airline at that time. I'm sorry it happened to you guys. Believe me, if I had any power to undo this deal, I would. SWAPA pilots hate it just as much as ATN pilots do. Most of us are getting over it and trying to move forward.

Yes, I know. We've been through this a million times before. Bottom line was that neither SWAPA nor ATN-ALPA had much leverage in these negotiations. SWA held all the cards....accept that fact or take effective action in managing the future of your career (Hint: whining on an airline forum is not effective action in managing your career).

Show me where they're skewed? Keep in mind my comments were addressed to WM, specifically. While I do not know his ATN DOH or upgrade date, my only point has been that when he chooses to cross over and become a SWA FO, he will not have to take a paycut. If he has such a colossal ego that he cannot handle being an FO again, then that is his problem to resolve....can't help him there. If he is one of those 1994-2001 ATN captains you reference, then he will not be a SWA FO for very long, and will enjoy a whopping pay RAISE come 2015. If he's a very junior ATN captain, he probably won't be able to hold captain at SWA for quite a while. That's where my earlier comment about YOUR MEC and MC's role is directed: If they had not grossly overplayed their hand and told SWA to pound sand after the first AIP, WM's captain seat would have had a MUCH greater chance of being saved. Now, it is what it is....

MaxPowers

I'll let WM speak for himself, but let's just say that he knows what his paystubs look like from both airlines. Like WM, most of the AAI Captains who transitioned to SWA report earning less, with the exception of those who live in a SWA Pilot base and pick up extra flying at premium. . . . clearly, not a valid data point.


Smokey, maybe you haven't visited the seniority calculator at myseniority.com but I certainly have, and due to the front-loading of CA positions (MOU between SWAPA and SWA currently headed for Dispute Resolution) a mid-seniority AAI Captain, like myself (bidding around 60% on the CA list at AAI) will not be able to re-upgrade until 2018-19. At that point, btw, I'll be an 18 year employee. . . . "Re-upgrading" into a seat I held for 10 years. . . . . Schweet.

Well, that may be how you choose to look at it; another way might be:

"There was a Process Agreement that was agreed to by SWA, SWAPA and ALPA. SWA decided not to follow the PA, and instead told the AAI Pilots to agree to a lopsided agreement, or face the loss of their jobs".

You are right that arguing about this stuff won't change it, but every time you (or someone else) tries to convince us of your version, you can expect to hear our side of it right back.

Smokey23

Fair enough, Max. See you on the line...if that's the option you choose for your future.

Frank Rizzo

1994-2001 hire, that's me. Can you guarantee me a "whopping raise" like my whopping seniority loss is guaranteed?

Your CBA has a 100% chance of changing going forward, my seniority does not. If history is any guide, you guys will eventually give concessions, if not Gary will take them. Right now he's saying "flattish". Next time it might be different. BTW, when I do get to re-upgrade, after I take a significant pay cut, I'll be going from my $185/hr AT rate to what? Like $210/hr? Not exactly "whopping" in my opinion.

MaxPowers

Cheer up, at least you'll have OAK to look forward to.

Frank Rizzo

That's cute. You should really enjoy being my FO.

I guess when you can't make a coherent argument, just be a }i€k.

MaxPowers

Uh, did I forget to put the "dripping with sarcasm" icon in my post?

I'm on the same side of the partition, killer . . . And if you and I are here long enough for you to be my CA . . . well, then we'd probably be the last two pilots on the property.

You're senior to me, so don't forget to turn out the lights on your way out.