Transition Award 13-9
09-02-2013, 02:52 PM
#31
Reserve Sucks
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 189
Um, "It" is happening to SWAPA pilots. Daily. There is plenty of pain on both sides of the partition. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
Ironically, there are several threads on our forums regarding the whole 717 mess. The short version? We got duped. SWAPA and AT/ALPA. If the Airtran pilots knew the 717's were going away, many would have voted differently - as would many at SWAPA. Agreeing to take on 1700 pilots while jettisoning a majority of the accompanying airframes? Really?
Ironically, this may serve to galvanize the 2 groups against the real culprit. And it aint' SWAPA.
Ironically, there are several threads on our forums regarding the whole 717 mess. The short version? We got duped. SWAPA and AT/ALPA. If the Airtran pilots knew the 717's were going away, many would have voted differently - as would many at SWAPA. Agreeing to take on 1700 pilots while jettisoning a majority of the accompanying airframes? Really?
Ironically, this may serve to galvanize the 2 groups against the real culprit. And it aint' SWAPA.
09-02-2013, 09:21 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 323
That's not completely true. There are replacements coming. Maybe not one for one but they are coming. I'm not sure the pain on the SWA side is comparable to that of the Trannies. SWA has reneged on every agreement they have made with the Trannies. Every single one of them. They have not honored one. I agree this is a mess though. We have no recourse other than DRC filings. I suggest you file grievances as well if you feel wronged.
I'm not sure the pain on the SWA side is comparable to that of the Trannies.
SWA has reneged on every agreement they have made with the Trannies. Every single one of them. They have not honored one.
Your arguments would carry much more weight without all the drama.
I agree, SWA has reneged on some of the agreements to the detriment of those of us on both sides.
And believe it or not, we're not happy either.
Like my good friend who gave up his 10 year tenure at AT and Captain seat 1 year before the acquisition. He willingly started over at the bottom of the list at SWA - after buying his type (just like everyone else did), at first year pay - to be ultimately be placed behind FO's still at AT.
One of many examples.
Yea, this sucks for us too.
09-03-2013, 02:13 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
I am.
Jesus. Hyperbole much?
Your arguments would carry much more weight without all the drama.
I agree, SWA has reneged on some of the agreements to the detriment of those of us on both sides.
And believe it or not, we're not happy either.
Like my good friend who gave up his 10 year tenure at AT and Captain seat 1 year before the acquisition. He willingly started over at the bottom of the list at SWA - after buying his type (just like everyone else did), at first year pay - to be ultimately be placed behind FO's still at AT.
One of many examples.
Yea, this sucks for us too.
Jesus. Hyperbole much?
Your arguments would carry much more weight without all the drama.
I agree, SWA has reneged on some of the agreements to the detriment of those of us on both sides.
And believe it or not, we're not happy either.
Like my good friend who gave up his 10 year tenure at AT and Captain seat 1 year before the acquisition. He willingly started over at the bottom of the list at SWA - after buying his type (just like everyone else did), at first year pay - to be ultimately be placed behind FO's still at AT.
One of many examples.
Yea, this sucks for us too.
As for pain on the SW side? Yes, agreed that on many SW pilot's microcosm there is some short-term pain. Hopefully the average relative seniority gain of 8% on your side will ease some of that, but let's not even compare the "pain" on the SW side to the AirTran side.
8% average RS gain on the SW side as opposed to a 22% average loss on the AT side. Chew on this.......
There are SW FOs who are now senior to me THAT WERE NOT EVEN ON SW PROPERTY WHEN I UPGRADED AT AIRTRAN!
Shared pain? Gimme a friggin' break
09-03-2013, 02:22 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
Of course, you're probably not aware of the recent ALPA study/survey of AirTran Cptns that transitioned over to SW FO and have been on that side for at least a year now. I believe the average loss of pay was right around 30K. How many SW pilots have taken a downgrade and/or paycut?
09-03-2013, 09:13 AM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: B737 Right
Posts: 80
Of course, you're probably not aware of the recent ALPA study/survey of AirTran Cptns that transitioned over to SW FO and have been on that side for at least a year now. I believe the average loss of pay was right around 30K. How many SW pilots have taken a downgrade and/or paycut?
Yes, and they say I'm getting a "free" type rating. Free is hardly the word for it.
09-03-2013, 10:00 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
Just because you decided to pay for one to try and get a job at SWA, doesn't mean anyone who's a part of an acquisition/merger should have to fork over $ for one. The mindset of SW pilots is nothing short of mind-blowing. After three years it still continues to amaze me (us collectively).
09-03-2013, 10:01 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 752
SIA? They violated it.
Process Agreement? Violated.
Transition Agreement? Violated.
ALPA CBA? Violated.
Please point at a SWAPA guy who:
Was forced to downgrade and
Was forced to commute and
Lost ~22% seniority and
Took ~$30k paycut.
That list is about 500 guys long at ATN.
The list becomes 1,800 guys long if you just go for 2 out of 4.
While I agree that the majority of blame lies with SWA, SWAPA has been happy to 'collude'. Who do you think is fighting the DRC filings? It isn't SWA management.
09-03-2013, 11:13 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 323
There is a LOT of pain on both sides.
I'm willing to acknowledge that.
Why can't you guys?
Continue fighting amongst yourselves.
And for the record, the often parroted "$30k paycut" is ALPA bull****.
I'm willing to acknowledge that.
Why can't you guys?
Continue fighting amongst yourselves.
And for the record, the often parroted "$30k paycut" is ALPA bull****.
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