Stitches

It's not bs, the jr upgrade on the last bid was a spring '05 hire. And I guess swa is only hiring 450 people this year to fill their new fleet of black helicopters...

Stitches

Luv, from your post I gather that 1) You're an Airtran pilot who hasn't transitioned yet, and 2) You really haven't looked at the SWA seniority/domicile lists and seen what guys are bidding.

I'm not trying to discount your situation but lets be fair since this is a swa hiring thread and not an AT transition total time to upgrade discussion. Yes its true that if you live in the ATL (SWA's smallest and most sr. base) your time to upgrade and time on reserve will be signifigantly longer than the vast majority of people who work here. (I'm assuming this applies to you as a sr AT FO.)

For the 9 other swa bases its a much different story. The avg base has about 350-400 pilots with about 11% reserve lines. Not all the reserve lines go jr as some guys who live in base bid them in addition to those who bid reserve for weekends off. If you are approx 7-10% from the bottom you have a decent shot of getting off reserve depending on the time of year. For most bases that equates to around 200-300 new hires needed which is maybe a year and a half to get off reserve based on future retirements. Obviously it will take longer if you're bidding into a more sr base, however each swa base is about a 2-3hr flight to another 2 bases that one could bid into.

I have no idea what the Air Tran rates or work rules are but on the swa side as a line holding FO its not at all difficult to clear 120+TFP working around 17 days a month. Looking at some of my classmates still on reserve I see a few hitting 130tfp this summer. You can do the math but a 12yr FO can do very well here on $132 per trip. The beauty of swa's system is in the work rules not the pay rates.

luv2bflyin

Very well, and as I said, the reason for that is the front loading of the captain seats to gain as many as possible prior to Jan 1 2015. At that time, there will be around 300 FAT f/o's and 100 transitioning captains that will take most of the captain bids for the next several years. Then will be next wave of FAT guys upgrading that were previously mid-level FL captains. The 9 year guys that are upgrading now will be on the bottom for 5-6 years, thus making the upgrade time for your 7-8 year guys at least 14 years, probably more, provided there is not another merger, downturn, or other unforeseeable tragedy.

luv2bflyin

Therefore, the upgrade time in excess of 14 years, possibly pushing 20, is apropos to the new-hire discussion.

WHACKMASTER

Precisely. The 2005 SW FOs that are upgrading now are doing so artificially because of downgrading AT Cptns. It's directly proportional. When I was transitioning there were approximately 24 fellow downgrades in my class and a class of upgrades running two doors down with, you guessed it....24. What a LUVly feeling that was.

A large part of those that are upgrading now will be stuck on reserve for a long time. Booohooooo. Enjoy the stolen seats.

Anyone that thinks they're going to upgrade in less than 10 years as a new hire doesn't seem to understand the concept of 8,000+ pilots and relatively few retirements. Either that or they think that SWA will spread into Latin America like RJs spread domestically in the late 90s and early 2000s.

WHACKMASTER

Approximately 150 to cover retirements, increased vacation week average per pilot, Part 117, and increased aircraft utilization.

Stitches

Agreed. The seniority calculator shows new hires at 14 years.

I agree that 20 years is a possibility, but not likely considering the 14 year assumptions are zero growth, 100% taking upgrades, and everyone staying until 65.

coryk

I know SWA likes military pilots (I think?) does enlisted military time help at all? I had 4 years Navy right out of high school, then was a DX'er, flew 135, now 121.

I guess what I'm trying to ask, does that stand out or is that "just like everyone else."

lr35pilot

if you have a DD214 it definitely helps put you on top of others in the stack, or at least the computer program will sort it all out.

EA18Gpilot

Hard to say. Just retired 20 yrs Navy with 2800 TT, 2000 TPIC + instructor time. Crickets through two hiring cycles. Just got 737 typed so hoping that'll tip the scales in my favor for the next window. From what I've heard the type rating will definitely put you in a smaller pile near the top of the stack - just a lot of $$ to drop to get there. Best of luck to ya!