itsokimapilot

First year-$50.17
Second year-$84.65

If you're able to pick up open time from the company it pays second year pay. This place is great, I love here and I'll have to be shown the door. The squeakiest wheels are on here. This is a great place to work.

luv2bflyin

What's the 15 year rate, or 20 for that matter as that is what upgrades will be running?

itsokimapilot

132.84 12 years+, which is the best domestic FO pay in the industry.

I hear Delta and American are hiring. If you need to chase the upgrade knock yourself out. I hear a lot of promises from the other airlines/air lines, but everyone I know that has been hired since 1999 is still an FO. This business is a crap shoot, I'm able to sleep well at night here.

V169

While SWA pilots get used more on reserve and sit less reserve days a month (15 days) than other airlines there are some really bad things about sitting reserve here. It's all two hour call-out. There is no trip ownership--up to the time you are at the airport anyone can call scheduling and take a trip from you. PM reserves are required to be in domicile at the start of a PM RAP (9:30am) even though a trip with a mid-afternoon report may have been awarded to you 24 hours earlier at the close of daily open time. Reserve vacations always pay the min guarantee. Days can only be dropped with Chief Pilot approval. Hopefully some improvements come about in the next contract.

busdriver12

So....I am curious. What does stinking rich and having a sweet schedule consist of? If you are a senior captain, what would that mean? How much pay would that be, and how much work (monthly days worked, hours and types of trips would that be)? I work for FedEx and I know what that might mean to me, but I'm curious what that means for other airlines.

ClippedWing

It's 9 years right now, what info do you have that says it to be longer? I'm willing to bet that we're at the beginning of a hiring spree that takes it down to 7ish years in the very near future.

And even it it doesn't, we have quite a few 10 plus year FOs here that make more than captains at many of our counterparts.

Like someone else said, Delta and American are hiring. You could give them a shot. I was on an AA jumpseat last month, the FO was just tickled pink, having just gotten off reserve on the -800 after 14 years.

WHACKMASTER

The legacies have massive retirements coming up. We (SWA) don't. Barring furloughs a new-hire will upgrade quicker at a legacy than at SWA. "Massive hiring" means massive numbers when your pilot group is 8,000+. People don't seem to grasp that concept.

No one's going to have a quick upgrade at SWA anymore. If you're looking at getting hired somewhere go to DLA, USA, AA, or UAL. Even if you're upgrade takes the same length of time, at least you can fly a wide-body to some nice destinations, not a decrepit Classic to Oklahoma City.

Or, if you really want a quick upgrade go to Spirit.

ZapBrannigan

First, I don't necessarily equate an upgrade as success. Fortunately SWA payscales in the right seat are more than adequate for a good quality of life. So, crazy as this may sound to some, I'd be happy retiring as a senior FO with control over my schedule. But that's personal preference.

Beyond that, the time frames you are talking about are way beyond our ability to accurately forecast in this business. Let me give you an example. In October 1998 I was a newhire at AirTran. We had just about finished training when the entire class was furloughed. AirTran at the time was not what you would consider a "destination carrier". On the contrary most of our class were CCAir, Chautauqua, and Great Lakes FOs with little if any PIC time who were looking for a stepping stone to the majors. Fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately) for me, it worked. Shortly after being furloughed by AirTran I was hired by USAir. Three years after that - furloughed again. I was recalled by AirTran in Jan 99 -- but had already gone to USAir so I turned them down. What if I had accepted recall? Where would I be today? Crystal balls don't work in this business.

Finally, you are predicting your two decade long upgrade forecast on zero growth, only retirements. Granted the legacy carriers have big retirement numbers. They also have limited growth capability due to comprehensive networks. SWA has the 'potential' for significant growth if they choose to continue expansion into Latin America or beyond. Should they choose to expand, how many new crews per aircraft would need to be hired/upgraded? The amount of domestic feed SWA represents is enormous. As long as the pilots don't bend on code share (or strictly control language including drop dead dates, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions etc) the potential is too great for any bean counter to ignore.

I always appreciate your contributions to this forum Whack. I'm not being argumentative but you know that a 5 year timeframe is the airline business is a guess, trying to predict 15 years is a wild gamble. I'd put a few bucks on SWA growth equalling the total number of bodies as legacy retirement in a percentage basis.

Stitches

I have to disagree with some of this. I'm on reserve & I just got back from an open time trip. I'm sitting on 105 tfp for this month IF I don't exceed the guarantee which I likely will so I'm expecting another 5tfp or so.

I flew 10 days last month instead of the usual 15 (mil duty) and cleared 85tfp thanks to an open time trip I picked up. In May I picked up an open time trip and had 120+tfp in 18 days of flying as a bottom 5 reserve commuter.

I try to bid reserve lines that have at least 1 group of 4-5 days off in a row so I can bid on a short open time trip. Knowing and understanding the contract is key but it is very doable for a reserve to get 105tfp. I agree that 105 is at the normal upper limit as a reserve though.

My definition of quasi line holder is that I have a trip on my schedule the day prior. In 4 months on reserve I have never gotten the 2 hour call out yet. Flown every day except 1 so no paying extra for hotels as a commuter and a crash pad doesn't make sense since I'd never be there. I commute so my qol is roughly the same as a line holding commuter with the exception of not being able to easily adjust my schedule after the bid through trades. I'm sure things will slow down in the fall a bit, I'm just giving my experience so far but with 50 retirements through the end of the year and what seems to be a steady pace of hiring I don't think I'll be on reserve too much longer unless I try to bid into a more sr base.

Stitches

It's all about perspective.

If you happen to be a reserve who lives in base and someone takes your trip then you get paid your guarantee to stay home. Now you can bid on the shorter open time trips for additional pay if you want, or not.

See my previous post but in my experience (and many others I've talked to) the 2 hour call out is fairly rare.