WHACKMASTER

Yeah, I/we completely realize this and in no way was it taken as a slam, blakman. Thanks.

They (SWAPA and SWA management) know damn well what they did. Our pilot group knows at least this much to be fact by now. Between the dinner that night that got quite "tense", transitioning ground school classes, etc. they know damn well how we feel.

Let's face it. It was better to pi** off our 1,735 pilots than it was to pi** off their 5900. It's really as simple as that and was a conscious decision on SWA management's part. That's why they showed up on the school playground as the big bully (to threaten our jobs if we didn't vote "YES" for the second POS) after we shoved the first POS SLI proposal back across the table.

They knew EXACTLY what they were doing and now are shocked because some of us have the audacity to be as furious as we are with this whole thing.

WHACKMASTER

Regarding your first paragraph, I trace the reasoning behind that back to SWAPA's insistence on a staple right from the get-go. We know how your union works, bro. Let's not bullschit here. Any Frontier pilots want to chip in on this?

As insistent as SWAPA was on getting a landslide deal for you guys, G.K. knew that if he didn't appease 5,900 SWAPA pilots there'd be a VERY large bunch of unhappy employees who control a major part of an airline's operation. Ever hear of the saying, "You gotta keep the pilots happy"?

While I'll give you that our union (Merger Committee and MEC Chairman in particular) could have handled things MUCH better, let's not sugar coat the reason why ol' G.K. stepped into our SLI negotiations and not others. He was dead set on going to bat for you guys so he didn't have almost 6,000 pi**ed off pilots flying his airplanes around. You know, the CULTure!

Well, he did a good job but now I hope he's ready for the repercussions of pi**ing off the smaller pilot group.

As for 1/1/2015.........I don't think we'd "hate being at SWA" if this whole thing went down fairly. Quite the contrary, I think we HAD a pilot group that would have fit in quite well with yours and your company. It really could have been good, but not so much anymore.

Ah yes, January 1st, 2015. The day that some of our senior Cptns. who can actually hold SWA Cptn. over there after the massive loss of seniority, get to reupgrade for a while to come after that date, all the while pi**ing your F/Os off. That and hearing that your F/Os are upset because some of the more senior AT pilots are coming to their bases and bumping their bidding power down (wouldn't have happened if they wouldn't have lost their seat), is all music to our ears. It's the least we can do for you guys being that we were treated so damned well. You're welcome

V169

No complaints from me--your senior guys now ruling the top of our FO lists at some bases are actually motivating some of our "entrenched" Lance Captains into finally bidding over to the left seat. Some of those guys have spent years getting the best QOL as FO's while grabbing great senior Captain trips in give-away and scoring the best FO premium open time awards. Before some restrictions were placed on the Lance Program in the last contract the highest paid pilot at SWA was actually an FO so there's not a lot of sympathy for the biggest complainers on the SWA side of the house.

JDFlyer

Quackers -

The bullseye on your back has been placed there so prominently by you and only by you. You make things so very, very easy.

Please do tell us more . . . . . and more . . . . . . and more . . . . . . and more . . . . .

wiggy

I am in sympathy with the AirTran pilots. Though I wouldn't have expected an ISL that perfectly reflected a maintenance of premerger category and status, nor a merger that maintained an exact relative percentage on the list, I also wouldn't expect the wholesale theft of every single captain position at AirTran.

I've followed your posts on this Whackmaster, and I've noticed a gradual increase of patience on your part, and I commend you for that. No matter how ridiculous or unjust the outcome of the ISL, the expression of outrage in the APC forum format will always fall short of conveying the essence of how you feel...There is a natural tendency for much of your intended audience, the original SW pilots, to look upon your posts with a morbid fascination, ignore the factual implications, and dismiss them as "drama". When you stated above that you could "barely look any of them in the eye", it struck a nerve with me, and here is why:

Though there are probably many SW pilots who are in a sort of "secret sympathy" with the plight of the AirTran guys...that "sympathy" is suppressed by self interest... by the indisputable benefit they will see with the addition of every single one of the Former AirTran captain positions that will be transferred exclusively to their group. Clearly a windfall for their group that would not have happened without the merger, and as an aside, I can't imagine the greed of those SW pilots who come on this forum and defend what has happened...I have to believe, WM, that they are an extreme minority of their group...and that brings me to the point again, -though most I think, are in sympathy...even true sympathy, to the extent that they might even say "yeah, the ISL should have been done more equitably", but since it appears to be a "done deal" their individual mantra becomes "there was (is) nothing I could do about it"...."it was (is) out of my hands" etc. -All those individual "I's" who claim to be individually not responsible (and even in sympathy) all collectively add up to a group that is directly responsible...so all you "innocent good-guy Southwest pilots" out there...don't try to justify yourselves in private too convincingly...or shrug your shoulders with too much of a sense of inevitability...you are not innocent bystanders, you bear direct responsibility for a travesty of justice imposed on fellow pilots...guys who do exactly the same job and make exactly the same sacrifices and have exactly the same aspirations as you do in this life style.

And to all you SW captains who might happen to see this...in the future when you look across your cockpit at a glowering, brooding former AT copilot, I urge you to resist the temptation to even secretly justify your position....after all...you didn't really have anything to do with the windfall you've enjoyed, right?...either directly or indirectly...You just "went along with the program"...and you above all are just a pilot who happened to be hired by SW...you merely fly airplanes, my friend, and strictly in that capacity you have virtually nothing to do with the economic success of your airline. Realize too, that by the rest of the industry, your pilot group is by and large viewed as very arrogant because of this cram-down in seniority. That fact undoubtedly means very little to some of you, but don't be surprised if your very own Whackmaster isn't the only one who can barely stand to look you in the eye.

Oh, and BTW, for any of you SW who like worship the holy grail of pay rates as justification...yes you made more money...but not anything close to justifying this seniority grab...It could have been handled fairly with a gradual step up to pay parity for the AT pilots...in conjunction with a much more reasonably relative seniority maintenance outcome...without anyone on the SW side suffering a loss of category or position. It was a "merger" after all....of pilot groups not an acquisition of bodies to staple on the bottom of a list.

WHACKMASTER

Facing up to the truth is getting under your skin isn't it?

As for the bullseye, if several people individually come up to me in person and caution me about my forum posts being noticed and watched by management, does it still make you believe that it's a self placed bullseye?

WHACKMASTER

Yeah, that doesn't seem right, but you know how it goes. People play the angles of the contract to get the max benefit. You really can't blame them if that's the system that's in place.

WHACKMASTER

Thank you! Thank you for "getting it". While the justifications and such keep flying from their side it's good to know that the bystanders see what has happened. That really means a lot. It does. After a while you start questioning whether you should be this pi**ed off and bitter. When those that are on the outside of this looking in make a post like yours or send me several "my condolences" types of PMs, well I realize I'm not crazy for feeling like this.

What else has been very enlightening is that some of the most incensed people are the wives of many of our pilots. I know a few guys that refused to take their spouse to the pre-ground school party that's held for transition (and all new-hire classes) because they didn't trust them to keep their mouth shut about their outrage for what happened to their husbands.

"Realize too, that by the rest of the industry, your pilot group is by and large viewed as very arrogant because of this cram-down in seniority" BINGO, but good luck getting them to agree or own up to this fact.

You're damned right they ALL should take responsibility for it. They ALL had votes! We were not a dying carrier that needed rescue. Quite the contrary, we were bought because of some of our assets and the fact that we were getting to the point where they were worried about us kind of like Spirit is becoming.

WHACKMASTER

I will tell you more......and more......and more JD, because as long as you guys are still on here with your pompous attitudes then I'll be here to give it right back to you with the added bonus of educating others about the CULTure and just how nicely we were treated.

1Seat 1Engine

Already worked with many FAT pilots. None of them are like you. Thank God.