Southwest Future
11-01-2012, 07:41 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 133
Southwest Future
After talking with my friends at AirTran ........
The deadline is 12-31-14 for all AirTran pilots to have "transitioned" over the partition to Southwest. Many AirTran pilots are worried about being furloughed. Just add this to the long list of "negatives" put on the back of AirTran pilots and their families since they "Won the Lottery".
This year the largest Domicile (ATL) 737 pilots schedules have been cut severely. They are running 49 % reserve. One friend who is very senior showed me his line. Everyone is basically on GAR. But, But, they still are working every week with the 3 and 4 day trips. Reminds me of the "busy" work details assigned to the PFC's in the Marine Corps.
Credit time is down for AirTran pilots 20 - 25%. This is a pay cut.
Their quality of life has gone downhill ever since Southwest. 49% reserve! Really? Many want to cross over and get their families some stability again. But they can't. Many who are senior are not allowed to even bid to cross over. Some helped their friends get hired at AirTran and now see them going to Southwest before them.
The big questions are .....Southwest is showing only 144 pilots able to cross over to Southwest from Jan 2013 thru July 2013. That is going to leave an estimated 1400 pilots still at AirTran. Does SWAPA really expect SWA to take on those 1400 in the remaining 16 months (Aug 2o13-Dec 2014)?
SWA continues to have 0 growth for the future. Are they going to just keep taking the flying from AirTran and not the pilots until all pilots are just put on reserve? Great Quality of life! My question would be if AirTran pilots are only flying 60 to 70 hours per month, how does the SWA side not have a pull down in Credit time when after all the AirTran pilots cross over?
What happens on 1-1-2015? Do all the remaining AirTran pilots just get a SWA ID card and keep their seat (Captains)? Or does everyone get furloughed on Nov 1,2014 so that SWA and SWAPA can continue to brag they have never furloughed at Southwest? Oh, but wait, AirTran pilots are Southwest pilots right now. Just ask a Southwest pilot like I have on the JetBlue jumpseats…..intersting in the difference of response from a SWA pilot hired in the 90's or before and one who has a hire date after 2000. I think this shows the Culture was changed before AirTran.
Do the remaining pilots who have not crossed over just get furloughed? After all, seniority means nothing on the AirTran side. The 15 – 18 year guys are out of a job in their late 40's, 50's or 60's but all the junior 3-7 year folks were allowed to bid over to security these past 2 years.
Are Southwest pilots even aware of anything that has been happening to their fellow aviators at AirTran? If they don’t care – where is that “Culture” that is always bragged about? Ask the folks who have been with SWA for 20+ years. I have asked a few and they say it has been gone for several years. Ever since the pay for all employee groups has grown and SWA has become so large. I am sure AirTran will be blamed however in the years to come.
The deadline is 12-31-14 for all AirTran pilots to have "transitioned" over the partition to Southwest. Many AirTran pilots are worried about being furloughed. Just add this to the long list of "negatives" put on the back of AirTran pilots and their families since they "Won the Lottery".
This year the largest Domicile (ATL) 737 pilots schedules have been cut severely. They are running 49 % reserve. One friend who is very senior showed me his line. Everyone is basically on GAR. But, But, they still are working every week with the 3 and 4 day trips. Reminds me of the "busy" work details assigned to the PFC's in the Marine Corps.
Credit time is down for AirTran pilots 20 - 25%. This is a pay cut.
Their quality of life has gone downhill ever since Southwest. 49% reserve! Really? Many want to cross over and get their families some stability again. But they can't. Many who are senior are not allowed to even bid to cross over. Some helped their friends get hired at AirTran and now see them going to Southwest before them.
The big questions are .....Southwest is showing only 144 pilots able to cross over to Southwest from Jan 2013 thru July 2013. That is going to leave an estimated 1400 pilots still at AirTran. Does SWAPA really expect SWA to take on those 1400 in the remaining 16 months (Aug 2o13-Dec 2014)?
SWA continues to have 0 growth for the future. Are they going to just keep taking the flying from AirTran and not the pilots until all pilots are just put on reserve? Great Quality of life! My question would be if AirTran pilots are only flying 60 to 70 hours per month, how does the SWA side not have a pull down in Credit time when after all the AirTran pilots cross over?
What happens on 1-1-2015? Do all the remaining AirTran pilots just get a SWA ID card and keep their seat (Captains)? Or does everyone get furloughed on Nov 1,2014 so that SWA and SWAPA can continue to brag they have never furloughed at Southwest? Oh, but wait, AirTran pilots are Southwest pilots right now. Just ask a Southwest pilot like I have on the JetBlue jumpseats…..intersting in the difference of response from a SWA pilot hired in the 90's or before and one who has a hire date after 2000. I think this shows the Culture was changed before AirTran.
Do the remaining pilots who have not crossed over just get furloughed? After all, seniority means nothing on the AirTran side. The 15 – 18 year guys are out of a job in their late 40's, 50's or 60's but all the junior 3-7 year folks were allowed to bid over to security these past 2 years.
Are Southwest pilots even aware of anything that has been happening to their fellow aviators at AirTran? If they don’t care – where is that “Culture” that is always bragged about? Ask the folks who have been with SWA for 20+ years. I have asked a few and they say it has been gone for several years. Ever since the pay for all employee groups has grown and SWA has become so large. I am sure AirTran will be blamed however in the years to come.
11-01-2012, 08:03 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Yes we're aware.
Our line totals have gone down significantly too and are expected to be slim through at least Jan. For Nov I'm currently down about 20 percent. However, it's cheaper to pay AT pilots to NOT fly than it is to pay Swapa pilots to NOT fly. So I'm sure the company is erring on the side of having more flying on the SWA side of the fence.
I would only say that during a period like this, I wouldn't expect operations to be normal. A lot of moving parts between companies and probably not as easy to forecast as you might think.
Another side of this situation is that it's clear that the company has so far stuck with it's zero furlough promise even though there's clearly not enough work to go around.
If we had ANY growth that might help hide the situation. A source of frustration for ALL of us. December 12 is right around the corner, and that will help, but not a whole lot.
Our line totals have gone down significantly too and are expected to be slim through at least Jan. For Nov I'm currently down about 20 percent. However, it's cheaper to pay AT pilots to NOT fly than it is to pay Swapa pilots to NOT fly. So I'm sure the company is erring on the side of having more flying on the SWA side of the fence.
I would only say that during a period like this, I wouldn't expect operations to be normal. A lot of moving parts between companies and probably not as easy to forecast as you might think.
Another side of this situation is that it's clear that the company has so far stuck with it's zero furlough promise even though there's clearly not enough work to go around.
If we had ANY growth that might help hide the situation. A source of frustration for ALL of us. December 12 is right around the corner, and that will help, but not a whole lot.
11-01-2012, 08:54 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 270
After talking with my friends at AirTran ........
The deadline is 12-31-14 for all AirTran pilots to have "transitioned" over the partition to Southwest. Many AirTran pilots are worried about being furloughed. Just add this to the long list of "negatives" put on the back of AirTran pilots and their families since they "Won the Lottery".
This year the largest Domicile (ATL) 737 pilots schedules have been cut severely. They are running 49 % reserve. One friend who is very senior showed me his line. Everyone is basically on GAR. But, But, they still are working every week with the 3 and 4 day trips. Reminds me of the "busy" work details assigned to the PFC's in the Marine Corps.
Credit time is down for AirTran pilots 20 - 25%. This is a pay cut.
Their quality of life has gone downhill ever since Southwest. 49% reserve! Really? Many want to cross over and get their families some stability again. But they can't. Many who are senior are not allowed to even bid to cross over. Some helped their friends get hired at AirTran and now see them going to Southwest before them.
The big questions are .....Southwest is showing only 144 pilots able to cross over to Southwest from Jan 2013 thru July 2013. That is going to leave an estimated 1400 pilots still at AirTran. Does SWAPA really expect SWA to take on those 1400 in the remaining 16 months (Aug 2o13-Dec 2014)?
SWA continues to have 0 growth for the future. Are they going to just keep taking the flying from AirTran and not the pilots until all pilots are just put on reserve? Great Quality of life! My question would be if AirTran pilots are only flying 60 to 70 hours per month, how does the SWA side not have a pull down in Credit time when after all the AirTran pilots cross over?
What happens on 1-1-2015? Do all the remaining AirTran pilots just get a SWA ID card and keep their seat (Captains)? Or does everyone get furloughed on Nov 1,2014 so that SWA and SWAPA can continue to brag they have never furloughed at Southwest? Oh, but wait, AirTran pilots are Southwest pilots right now. Just ask a Southwest pilot like I have on the JetBlue jumpseats…..intersting in the difference of response from a SWA pilot hired in the 90's or before and one who has a hire date after 2000. I think this shows the Culture was changed before AirTran.
Do the remaining pilots who have not crossed over just get furloughed? After all, seniority means nothing on the AirTran side. The 15 – 18 year guys are out of a job in their late 40's, 50's or 60's but all the junior 3-7 year folks were allowed to bid over to security these past 2 years.
Are Southwest pilots even aware of anything that has been happening to their fellow aviators at AirTran? If they don’t care – where is that “Culture” that is always bragged about? Ask the folks who have been with SWA for 20+ years. I have asked a few and they say it has been gone for several years. Ever since the pay for all employee groups has grown and SWA has become so large. I am sure AirTran will be blamed however in the years to come.
The deadline is 12-31-14 for all AirTran pilots to have "transitioned" over the partition to Southwest. Many AirTran pilots are worried about being furloughed. Just add this to the long list of "negatives" put on the back of AirTran pilots and their families since they "Won the Lottery".
This year the largest Domicile (ATL) 737 pilots schedules have been cut severely. They are running 49 % reserve. One friend who is very senior showed me his line. Everyone is basically on GAR. But, But, they still are working every week with the 3 and 4 day trips. Reminds me of the "busy" work details assigned to the PFC's in the Marine Corps.
Credit time is down for AirTran pilots 20 - 25%. This is a pay cut.
Their quality of life has gone downhill ever since Southwest. 49% reserve! Really? Many want to cross over and get their families some stability again. But they can't. Many who are senior are not allowed to even bid to cross over. Some helped their friends get hired at AirTran and now see them going to Southwest before them.
The big questions are .....Southwest is showing only 144 pilots able to cross over to Southwest from Jan 2013 thru July 2013. That is going to leave an estimated 1400 pilots still at AirTran. Does SWAPA really expect SWA to take on those 1400 in the remaining 16 months (Aug 2o13-Dec 2014)?
SWA continues to have 0 growth for the future. Are they going to just keep taking the flying from AirTran and not the pilots until all pilots are just put on reserve? Great Quality of life! My question would be if AirTran pilots are only flying 60 to 70 hours per month, how does the SWA side not have a pull down in Credit time when after all the AirTran pilots cross over?
What happens on 1-1-2015? Do all the remaining AirTran pilots just get a SWA ID card and keep their seat (Captains)? Or does everyone get furloughed on Nov 1,2014 so that SWA and SWAPA can continue to brag they have never furloughed at Southwest? Oh, but wait, AirTran pilots are Southwest pilots right now. Just ask a Southwest pilot like I have on the JetBlue jumpseats…..intersting in the difference of response from a SWA pilot hired in the 90's or before and one who has a hire date after 2000. I think this shows the Culture was changed before AirTran.
Do the remaining pilots who have not crossed over just get furloughed? After all, seniority means nothing on the AirTran side. The 15 – 18 year guys are out of a job in their late 40's, 50's or 60's but all the junior 3-7 year folks were allowed to bid over to security these past 2 years.
Are Southwest pilots even aware of anything that has been happening to their fellow aviators at AirTran? If they don’t care – where is that “Culture” that is always bragged about? Ask the folks who have been with SWA for 20+ years. I have asked a few and they say it has been gone for several years. Ever since the pay for all employee groups has grown and SWA has become so large. I am sure AirTran will be blamed however in the years to come.
11-01-2012, 09:19 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
Oh boy, here we go.......... popcorn please.
"Are Southwest pilots even aware of anything that has been happening to their fellow aviators at AirTran?"
To answer your question Brakes Set, it's been my observation based on interactions with SWA pilots that the answer to your question is a resounding "NO", and when educated about just how much of a fook job this is for some of us (especially junior Cptns. and senior F/Os), they're generally shocked.
Case in point, I just had a 15 yr. SWA Cptn. on my j/s a couple of weeks ago. He didn't even know I was losing my seat and the fact that they are "capturing" all of our B737 Cptn. seats. Yeah, not joking.
Regarding the ongoing negotiations between our union and SWA management to ease the pain of this merger/aquisition/SLI on the AirTran pilots, the resounding opinion of those that are doing the negotiations on our part is that management is WELL AWARE that they screwed us, will listen intently to our concerns, but will not be doing zilch about it.
"Are Southwest pilots even aware of anything that has been happening to their fellow aviators at AirTran?"
To answer your question Brakes Set, it's been my observation based on interactions with SWA pilots that the answer to your question is a resounding "NO", and when educated about just how much of a fook job this is for some of us (especially junior Cptns. and senior F/Os), they're generally shocked.
Case in point, I just had a 15 yr. SWA Cptn. on my j/s a couple of weeks ago. He didn't even know I was losing my seat and the fact that they are "capturing" all of our B737 Cptn. seats. Yeah, not joking.
Regarding the ongoing negotiations between our union and SWA management to ease the pain of this merger/aquisition/SLI on the AirTran pilots, the resounding opinion of those that are doing the negotiations on our part is that management is WELL AWARE that they screwed us, will listen intently to our concerns, but will not be doing zilch about it.
11-01-2012, 09:24 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
EVERYBODY else gets it! EVERYBODY. Talk to any pilot from any other airline and they are well aware of just how much we got screwed. At the crux of this disagreement or whatever it is you want to label it, I know that we are in the right not because we the AirTran pilots think we're in the right, but because every airline pilot on the outside looking in on this situation thinks we're in the right. That says a lot.
11-01-2012, 10:42 AM
#6
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 19
EVERYBODY else gets it! EVERYBODY. Talk to any pilot from any other airline and they are well aware of just how much we got screwed. At the crux of this disagreement or whatever it is you want to label it, I know that we are in the right not because we the AirTran pilots think we're in the right, but because every airline pilot on the outside looking in on this situation thinks we're in the right. That says a lot.
Based on your quote about being "RIGHT" I fully expect you to start a Single Seniority List drive!!
I learned long ago most people don't give a darn about any one else's plight. Of course a guy on "YOUR" jumpseat is going to agree with you. Only an idiot wouldn't.
As far as losing C737 Captain seats, well jeez you voted for it. I love how you whine about how it isn't a pay raise, while comparing it to a contract you only got because SWA bought you. Hell you were ready to go on strike. You were sold out by the very management team you hated.
If you start getting furloughed, I will 100% agree it SUX. I do not wish that on anyone.
It will get better and SWA will thrive, with or without Whack Masters help.
11-01-2012, 03:14 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 F.O.
Posts: 180
Absolutely incorrect. You couldn't be more wrong. I speak with pilots from other airlines about it all the time and the VAST majority have very little knowledge about the situation beyond the fact that there was an acquisition. It just goes to show you that many people have the propensity to tell you exactly what they think you want to hear. That goes for both sides, the comments that I hear and the comments that you hear. However, when I hear them asking me for information about the topic because they have no real knowledge of the situation, I usually take them at their word. The percentage of people on these boards discussing all things airline related are an extremely small percentage of the group as a whole.
11-04-2012, 08:27 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,001
Is this thread about SWA's future, or yet another thread about the SLI b/t the Airtran and Southwest pilots?
BTW, 'CRJAV8OR' is right on. 5% of pilots stay informed on what goes on in the industry. The other 95% . . . not so much.
BTW, 'CRJAV8OR' is right on. 5% of pilots stay informed on what goes on in the industry. The other 95% . . . not so much.
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