LuvJockey

Sink R8, I've had plenty of experiences with your airline, one only a couple of weeks ago but I won't be discussing it on a public board. Again, it's bad karma.

Rolf

The stereotype probably got started the same way yours started. "cleared visual, follow xxx to the airport" " mmm no, we will just find the airport ourselves" is that true today too or did xxx learn? See what I'm getting at, sink?

Sink r8

This is a little like a religious discussion, where it feels like you view every observation as an attack on your identity, but, gratuitous insults aside, you bring up a good point. I tend to view My experiences with SW as a contnuous string of events, but you're probably evolving all the time. I assume you've drawn some conclusions, and made some changes I just haven't noticed.

I guess I got distracted by the posters who said they'd rather compare safety records than acknowledge some changes were needed, and those who were interested about airlines not involved in the accident being discussed.

I'll just hope you guys were more willing to take a hard look at your practices behind closed doors, than in this thread. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

1Seat 1Engine

It was abundantly clear. That was my point.

You absolutely ARE comparing airlines, so please don't pretend you are doing otherwise with silly disclaimers to yourself like:
What's totally clear is you're are not making some impartial safety observation, you're attacking the SWA pilot group. As a general rule, that will entertain some return fire.

Soooo...if you're really not comparing airlines, I'd like to hear how these same safety factors seem to effect the company that YOU work for...impartially of course, just for a "simple arguments" sake. Perhaps you could tell us about a time that YOUR company had a major accident and what you think the cause was, and if it was something endemic of the culture of YOUR airline?

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you can think of non-SWA safety-wise...just to be fair of course.

Rolf

Last thoughts,
Aircraft accidents and incidents are statisticly near zero. It seems to me the common thread in most of these are distractions. Whether the distraction is caused by a medical issue in the back, changing app assignment or an unexpected wake encounter, if it happens at the wrong time, we are all error prone.
"There comes a time, on every approach, when you have to stop thinking about boobs" A friend told me that a long time ago.
Peace

Sink r8

No, I was was making an assertion about what I termed a culture of speed. Pilots are about the same at all airlines. The culture then modifies behavior, and some outliers take a habit too far. If I was attacking your group, I would attack Southwest pilots in general. I'm attacking what I perceive as a practice of doing everything too fast. I don't remember anyone at any airline suggesting an AirTran pilot was acting differently than a pilot at any other airline. So it's not the people, but the specific practices I question.

That's the entire point: the same factors do NOT exist at my airline. We don't pay by the trip, and to my knowledge noone else does. I tend to think that, over time, something happened, maybe something as innocuous as your pay system discouraging taking the flight beyond block, maybe something else, led to a different outlook on speed of execution.

At other airlines, including my own, pilots make mistakes. A contributor to mistakes, as I saw on one of my own legs not too long ago, is get-theritis. Whenever we want the mission to succeed a little too badly, we risk errors. I can think of several other examples. I also happen to think many SWA flights I've encountered act as if they're on the go-home leg before a vacation, with a heart onboard waiting for a transplant, with a line of weather on the horizon, a plane-load full of tight connections, and a Line Check Captain at the controls. You guys have yet to discuss this point, except to tell me my eyes deceive me, and no, you don't do everything fast.

You ask me to be impartial, and I claim not such thing. I am a frequent critic of some of your practices and behaviors. I acknowledge that your pilots are just as good as any pilot in the industry. I respect your management's business acumen, and your ability to perpetuate the myth of a low-cost carrier. And I envy your people-centric culture, especially since we used to have it. But I don't think I'm off-base in my analysis: you guys do a lot of things too fast, and I've often felt it would bite you in the a$$. Now it has. What you guys do with that is up to you.

Overall, you guys have done very well, and I grudgingly commend your management on your commercial success. Your airline in general, your maintenance, etc., seems completely adequate. As for your safety record, and your statistics, they look really good. If not for BUR and MDW, in fact, I think your record would be nearly perfect, wouldn't it?

If at some point, you want to quit attacking me personally for expressing my opinion that you do things too fast, and you want to dispute that assertion, be my guest. If what you're looking for is an admission that all airlines have weaknesses, a point to which I've already stipulated, you can trample that horse on your own.

Sink r8

An excellent way to end. I'm happy to leave it there.

I'm going to go think about boobs.

CRJAV8OR

Yes you certainly are, a VERY frequent critic. Why don't you just change your screen name to "Iceman."
i am dangerous - YouTube

Sink r8

No, not that kind. Real boobs.

LuvJockey

This isn't a personal attack, but that's not what "trip pay" is. You have no idea what you're talking about. The term trip pay is a relic left from when SWA only had three flights, all of about 50 minutes. Now, 40 years later, 1 hour block time equals 1.13 trips (or so). Nothing more complicated than that. When we are over scheduled block, we get payed more "trips".

Nevermind......