Sink r8

Nice deflection. I didn't say I don't have concerns about my airline, or industry practices. For example, our training is dumbed down so much we no longer understand how our respective aircraft work. I imagine SWA guys don't have that problem.

But over the years, we've all some major clean-ups, responding to trends, including a string of accidents in the late 80's. More recently, we're working retroactively, trying to erradicate errors discovered in FOQA data, for example trying to eliminate unstabilized approaches. Personally, I think we're not being proactive enough, but the point being is that we're at a minimum paying lip service to improving safety.

When it comes to culture, we're constantly trying to push doing things right above doing them fast. Because there is often a conflict between the two, and you have to set a hierarchy there. That's the difference I see between our two airlines.

I don't think it's an affront for a pilot to suggest to another pilot that maybe there is a better way. Scrutiny is a cornerstone of safety. But, by all means, if your approach is to convince yourself you're doing great because others make mistakes, keep doing what you're doing. It's working fine.

OrionTanker

It is basically an emergency when landing on 13C at Midway. It rarely happens VFR or IFR. O'Hare runs the show and they do not want arrival traffic landing on 13C at Midway, period.

In this case it was an IFR landing, with moderate rain and winds. Throw in some holding not expected and you set yourself up. The error chain was broken in this case.

The EMAS was avoided. EMAS does stop airplanes. But think about this - if you end up in an EMAS area, air stairs or associated vehicles cannot get to the airplane. I may be wrong with this thinking, but .... The only way you can get passengers off the airplane is slides. That opens a bigger can of worms for injuries and the NTSB.

Off thread alittle, just something to think about.

tsquare

That's bad karma to bring that stuff up. I don't care who started it.

blakman7

100% agreed

CRJAV8OR

Where in the world did you get this idea? You are absolutely incorrect about the safety culture at SWA. Trust me when I say that if you believe SWA has any other practice above safety in the hierarchy, you clearly have no clue about what goes on at SWA. We obviously embrace the concept that doing things correctly above doing them quickly is the goal at SWA. We employ FOQA, FDAP, LOSA and various other programs to spot errors, address them, and improve safety. To state anything to the contrary is simply ridiculous and inherently inaccurate.

Sink r8

OK, my opinion is based on my observations as a (rare) jumpseater, passenger, and simply from sharing the system with you guys. I've never heard it disputed that American taxies particularly slow, and I've never heard it disputed that SWA taxies particularly fast. You see a guy doing some ungodly dive into SAN, and you know the paint job is going to be butt-ugly brown, or lavatory blue. Stereotypes often work well.

Now, I'll apologize for my editorial and subjective comments on your color tastes, but I'll stand by my assertions about the way in which SWA stands way, way apart from any other airline when it comes to doing everything fast. Usually very well.

I won't argue the point you're very committed to safety, but let me ask you this to determine whether this is a rational discussion or not: do you deny SWA stands out in terms of speed, or are you arguing you know how to it faster, but as safely?

CRJAV8OR

I am not arguing anything but simply pointing out that your assertion that the difference between our two airlines is that yours strives to do do things right while mine strives to do them fast above correctly and safely is patently false on top of being absurd. No more, no less. Your assertions are incorrect.

Sink r8

You're countering points I'm not making. I'm sure both of our airlines strive to be safe, and I'm in fact not comparing our airlines. I'm making a simple argument:
-There is a conflict between speed and safety,
-You guys like to do things fast and safe,
-BUR and MDW suggest your interest in speed may be interfering with your interest in safety... ergo you might consider slowing it down a little.

As far as bringing comparisons into it, and trying to turn this into a debate about my airline vs. yours, that's not a part of my assertion. The topic is MDW and SW, and my conclusions are that some of cultural practices undermine some of your objectives.

Here's to hoping this remains an academic discussion, with no further data points.

Fly safe,

Sink r8

V169

The American jet than ran off the runway in LIT was due to them rushing to get on the ground ahead of a thunderstorm so why don't we just agree that being in a hurry has bad consequences no matter what paint job is on the side of your jet.

CRJAV8OR

Actually I am countering points you are making. To quote you directly: "When it comes to culture we're constantly trying to push doing things right above doing them fast. Because there is often a conflict between the two, and you have to set a hierarchy there. That's the difference I see between our two airlines. So, to recap 1) You are comparing our airlines. 2) You are insinuating that mine puts speed above safety and yours strives to do things correctly above all else. You have pointed to specific incidents and claimed that they were caused by a a culture that puts doing things quickly above safety. It is a false claim. I will not stoop to attempting to drag your company through the mud by bringing up its own safety deficiencies and I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing the same to mine.