Whoa Whoa Nelly
08-17-2012, 08:22 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Gave up. Staying retired.
Posts: 111
08-17-2012, 09:03 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 F.O.
Posts: 180
First, you have to run the checklist:
"...But the NTSB says "no mention" of the checklist or the speedbrakes was found on the cockpit-voice recorder, and the flight-data recorder shows that the speedbrakes were not armed..."
When you look at Burbank, or Midway, it validates what many of us think about Southwest's speed culture. It's good to be mission-oriented, to a point. The way I see it, Southwest long ago crossed over that threshold. I don't know if it's a product of getting paid by the trip, or complacency generated by flying one type of airplane for so long, but in my opinion, there is something there.
To be sure, I think the industry in general could use a tune-up in terms of some of our practices, and, to be sure, my airline makes mistakes, and this pilot makes mistakes. They're just not the product of trying be a little too cute.
"...But the NTSB says "no mention" of the checklist or the speedbrakes was found on the cockpit-voice recorder, and the flight-data recorder shows that the speedbrakes were not armed..."
When you look at Burbank, or Midway, it validates what many of us think about Southwest's speed culture. It's good to be mission-oriented, to a point. The way I see it, Southwest long ago crossed over that threshold. I don't know if it's a product of getting paid by the trip, or complacency generated by flying one type of airplane for so long, but in my opinion, there is something there.
To be sure, I think the industry in general could use a tune-up in terms of some of our practices, and, to be sure, my airline makes mistakes, and this pilot makes mistakes. They're just not the product of trying be a little too cute.
08-17-2012, 12:01 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 F.O.
Posts: 180
That could possibly be true, I don't remember all the specifics from the preliminary report. However, I stand by the assertion that it had absolutely nothing to do with a "speed culture" that the other poster I quoted was referring to. Humans make mistakes, it happens. If you learn from them (extended, deployed callouts now at SWA), then you are improving but we will never be able to take human mistakes out of aviation completely. Nor, will we likely ever stop Monday morning quarterbacks from throwing stones at others.
08-17-2012, 12:07 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Yes, I am sure "speed culture" is the culprit here. The aircraft left holding to begin the approach, there was no speed culture effect in this case. The preliminary reports I remember reading at the time stated that there was a last minute runway change that prompted the need to reprogram the FMS. High workload and a flap overspeed interrupting the before landing checklist are what caused this incident. Sometimes crews get task saturated and incidents occur because of it, but to blame this on speed culture is inaccurate in my opinion. The aircraft left holding to begin the approach, I highly doubt at that point they were rushing to the runway after holding.
What I termed the culture if speed doesn't refer to airspeed alone, but the apparent rushed manner in which I see them operate.
08-17-2012, 12:17 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
That could possibly be true, I don't remember all the specifics from the preliminary report. However, I stand by the assertion that it had absolutely nothing to do with a "speed culture" that the other poster I quoted was referring to. Humans make mistakes, it happens. If you learn from them (extended, deployed callouts now at SWA), then you are improving but we will never be able to take human mistakes out of aviation completely. Nor, will we likely ever stop Monday morning quarterbacks from throwing stones at others.
I'm not saying most SWA pilots would be this far off, I'm asking whether there is something about the way the operate that prevented them from giving themselves some time/space during the evolution, to keep it down to a mere embarassment.
08-17-2012, 04:33 PM
#18
Feeling blessed.
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Was I finally in the right place at the right time?
Posts: 540
I've seen the video. Is there any report that the outcome could have been less dramatic had the Captain steered into the EMAS as opposed to trying to make a high speed turn out of that taxi-way.
Note: Landing distance is considerably shorter than the above mentioned.
Note: Landing distance is considerably shorter than the above mentioned.
08-18-2012, 05:32 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-737 / FO
Posts: 246
First, you have to run the checklist:
"...But the NTSB says "no mention" of the checklist or the speedbrakes was found on the cockpit-voice recorder, and the flight-data recorder shows that the speedbrakes were not armed..."
When you look at Burbank, or Midway, it validates what many of us think about Southwest's speed culture. It's good to be mission-oriented, to a point. The way I see it, Southwest long ago crossed over that threshold. I don't know if it's a product of getting paid by the trip, or complacency generated by flying one type of airplane for so long, but in my opinion, there is something there.
To be sure, I think the industry in general could use a tune-up in terms of some of our practices, and, to be sure, my airline makes mistakes, and this pilot makes mistakes. They're just not the product of trying be a little too cute.
"...But the NTSB says "no mention" of the checklist or the speedbrakes was found on the cockpit-voice recorder, and the flight-data recorder shows that the speedbrakes were not armed..."
When you look at Burbank, or Midway, it validates what many of us think about Southwest's speed culture. It's good to be mission-oriented, to a point. The way I see it, Southwest long ago crossed over that threshold. I don't know if it's a product of getting paid by the trip, or complacency generated by flying one type of airplane for so long, but in my opinion, there is something there.
To be sure, I think the industry in general could use a tune-up in terms of some of our practices, and, to be sure, my airline makes mistakes, and this pilot makes mistakes. They're just not the product of trying be a little too cute.
Last edited by HuronIP; 08-18-2012 at 05:47 AM.
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