WHACKMASTER

I'm going to go out on the limb and guess that you're PHX based, right?

1Seat 1Engine

I'd love to entertain your stupid banter but my stinging comeback could easily be twisted to potentially offend other AT pilots who I have zero beef with.

So I'll just keep it simple. You're one small cog in a big machine. You're a pretty insignificant cog actually. Cogs are a dime a dozen. Nice quiet happy cogs that aren't afraid to do a days work.

With that, I'm taking a nice break on the beach for a couple days. You sit here and worry about the message boards and get back to me on how your therapy is going.

WHACKMASTER

I'll take that as a "yes". Enjoy the beach. I'll keep you posted on my therapy

OscartheGrouch

Oscar is reengaging (vacation time with the family is a priority).

Well WM, I would not describe my intentions with the word in bold above. As I have said in the past the position of both negotiating committees was just that, a position. Each position was modified and eventually both groups voted for the SLI we now have. My intentions are to treat every SWA employee the way I would like to be treated.

Your position has been stated over and over and we understand that you were unwilling to compromise and voted against the second offer. Your seat and what you believe your seniority should have been were negotiated away (it really is that simple). I have stated my position about what I thought an SLI should have looked like and it was pretty much the first offer that was rejected. It had compromises on everyone's part. My opinion is just that, an opinion that not all will agree with. I will probably never see the argument for relative seniority (an opinion) that I believe would have satisfied the great WM.

You have provided some info, but what exactly should the relative seniority of AT folks look like in WM's perfect world. Straight DOH? Exact percentage seniority (ex. 10% at AT equals 10% on the SWA list)? Relative seniority after a certain year? What would have satisfied the WM?


The Oscar

Brakes Set

Here at JetBlue we are already worried about the rumors of the Delta folks interested in us. Comments being made about how we are non - union and they could staple every one of us, etc....

What would have been wrong with something between Relative Seniority and DOH? Why did SWAPA/SWA have to take everything away from the pilots of AirTran? Really impact the thousand of families lives and quality of life.

In other mergers, there were many different excuses. AA used the Bankruptcy of TWA as a big advantage of the take aways - AirTran was not in Bankruptcy. If US Air was successful in taking AA will the APA just tell themselves we are in Bankruptcy and they should staple all of us?

I know it is hard to imagine but if AA was to buy SWA would it be fair to say No SWA Captains can come over as a Captain? In fact, since the junior Captains were hired (guessing here) in 1993 at AA, should that give them the right to tell all the SWA Captains hired in 1994 they should be put behind AA F/O's in 1997. Some in there late 40's early 50's will never make Captain before they retire.

I know a few non-check airman line Captains at AAI who have worked 160-165 days and made 200k until this past 12 months. I don't think the SWA F/O's are all doing this.

mulcher

There are several SWA FOs that make more then that and can do it on the same number of days or less. I dont work the system I will be only a little south of that figure. Working about 160 days.

WHACKMASTER

[QUOTE=Brakes Set;1227579]
What would have been wrong with something between Relative Seniority and DOH? Why did SWAPA/SWA have to take everything away from the pilots of AirTran? Really impact the thousand of families lives and quality of life.
[QUOTE]

What would have been wrong with it? Let me give you a little clue as to the mentality of the SWA pilot group/SWAPA:

- SWAPA had LITERALLY proposed during SLI negotiations that ALL AirTran pilots be put on probation after we crossed the fence. Yeah, I chit you not.

- Many of them believe that we should have all been stapled.

- Some actually believe that we should have been given preferential interviews at best.

- A lot of them are mad that some AirTran pilots don't have a B737 type rating while they were forced to go get one in order to work for SWA. Get this....some actually would like to get reimbursed for their types because to them we "slid" in as SWA pilots without having to pay for a type.

So hopefully you get a better understanding of the mentality that we are dealing with here. Throw in the fact that "Big Daddy" was willing to step in and threaten our pilot group with nonintegration if we didn't accept the second Agreement in Principle....er......"If these SLI negotiations cause an arbitrated decision that threatens the CULTure of our airline" and you now should have a better understanding of how we got here.

What's funny (well, not really) is how they all want to be play nice and be friends now that the SLI completely fell their way. Now, the AirTran pilots that are bitter, upset and actually speak out are "not team players" and "will never last at SWA with that kind of attitude". Easy for them to say. They're the ones that actually gained significant relative seniority by screwing us while we lost up to 33% relative seniority and our seats (yours truly included).

And I'm supposed to put on that canyon blue smile and not be bitter? YHGTBFSM!!! You people are out of your ****ing mind!

1Seat 1Engine

And I can think of no one who can more objectively asses anyone's mentality than you, Mr-Head-Agitator.

Evidently WhackMaster has never negotiated anything before. Positions taken during negotiations are not the positions you end up at. There was precedence for both a staple and probation so it seems like a good place to start.. I'd expect my union to start negotiations with a strong opening position. I'd also expect a grown-up to not get all butt-hurt over every position taken enroute to an agreement.

Like I said, this is how it was done before. Feel free to ask any of the former Morris dudes who are all now senior capt's what they think on this subject. They might be some of the guys you're talking about.

Well, as you prove every time you hit "enter", we all have our outliers.

A legit question. I had to pay for mine. I realize this ship has sailed so I'm not going to argue it. BTW: Morris dudes didn't have to get a type either.

Don't forget your Red/White&Blue tie too!

WHACKMASTER

I rest my case about your pilot group's mentality.

V169

Brakes Set - SWA has lots of *"old guy" FO's who never would have seen upgrade had all the AirTran Captains got to keep their seats. *The problem was that when it was time to sit down and hammer out an SLI the most junior AT Captain was over 1,000 numbers junior to the bottom SWA Captain. *With a combined list of over 7,500 pilots and a flat growth rate guess how many millions of dollars in career earnings would have been lost on the SWA side to let every AT Captain fill a SWA left seat? *

I have an ex-TWA buddy at American who originally got hired in 1989 and is still in the bottom 10% of the American list. *Think there's any chance he will happily jerk the gear for a Jet Blue guy who got hired 15 plus years after he did?