shoelu

The average line credit for all bases in July is 98.82 at SWA. What is the average line credit at AirTran in July? If that has gone down, what would your best guess be of average line credit have been pre-acquisition? That seems like it would be an accurate estimate of the average take home pay. I'm not trying to say that an AT CA will make more as an SWA FO, because I doubt that they will, but I speculate that they are at least in the same ballpark.

PCL_128

No idea. I would have to do the math manually, because the company stopped publishing that number with the new CBA because we got rid of the line value index (complicated concept related to construction of build-up lines). Line values did drop significantly beginning this year with the loss of our flying to the SWA side of the partition, so line values definitely aren't what they used to be. I would guess the average on the 717 this month is in the 82-85 hour range.

Closer to high-80s.

Not really. How many pilots do you know who only fly their original line? I don't know too many. Even I don't do that, and I'm pretty damned lazy.

ClipperJet

Actually, I have. Several times. I used a VERY conservative 100 trips a month as what a typical SWA FO can reasonably expect to fly without doing anythging more than flying his/her line. I have used the term "average" a couple times, which I shouldn't have. "Average" is a mathmatical term, and what I meant was/is "typical." I believe the "average" SWA pilot is paid closer to 110 trips/month.

Because nobody would tell how many hours a "typical" ATN CA flies in a month. Other people have tried to compare guarantee to guarantee or big time flyer to big time flyer. I think the most valid comparison is to compare a "typical" ATN CA to a similar SWA FO, at the same longevity, working the same number of days. The ATN folks have been deafeningly silent on how what a typical ATN line looks like.

OK. I can work with these numbers...

"Closer to the high 80s." I'll use 87.5--halfway between 85 and 90.

7 year ATN CA: $151 x 87.5 = $13,212
7 Year SWA FO: $125 x 100 = $12,500 (-$1,212) To "break even," the SWA FO will have to work 106 trips, at 6.5 trips per day, that's 16-17 days a month.

12 yr ATN CA: $165 x 87.5 =$14,437
12 Yr SWA FO: $ 132 x 100 = $13,200 (-$1,237) To "break even," the SWA FO will have to work 110 trips, or 17 days a month.

To complete the comparison, we will have to know how many days a month the ATN CA has to work in order to credit 87.5 hours.

PCL_128

Using July's lines, an ATN 717 CA would need to work only 15 days to credit 87.5 hours flying nothing more than his original line. By swapping around for more efficient trips and getting some premium pay, that could be reduced.

mulcher

I am working 14 days for 115 tfp. I am not sr and I am not a player just a line guy that uses ELITT to my advantage.

PCL_128

I'm talking just regular lines as published, not ELITT. We have a two-stage SAP process which is basically our version of ELITT (without so many restrictions), but I'm not counting what you can do in that.

1Seat 1Engine

A 12 year SWA FO is so senior that he can easily out do the average. A little knowledge of the system and some open time seniority can make that 160tfp on 15 days.

Anyone with that kind of seniority can get all turns and 2 days on the original bid, give it all away and make his/her sched from scratch out of giveaway and open time.

ClipperJet

The 6.5/day is the minimum trips can average, so the 16 days is a worst case scenario. I was trying be conservative. A typical trip density pays around 7.5/day. (some up around 8.5/day, and a few down around 6.7/day) I was trying to be generic, but here's what the July SWA FO lines look like:

Work 11 days: 90-95 trips (only a few of these)
Work 12 days: 89-100 trips
Work 13 days: 90-107 trips
Work 14 days: 94-110 trips
Work 15 days: 99-112 trips

To visualize the distribution: The 12 day pairings trend toward the low 90s , while the 15 day pairings trend towrd the upper end, 108-109. (Only a few 15 day pairings pay 99-100, while only a few 12 day pairings pay 98-99 or more.) 13s cluster around 98-100 and 14s around 103-105.

So, in July, to reach the breakeven 106-110 trips, the SWA FO will have to bid a line working 13-14 days.

A 12-year captain will be a senior FO, and can bid the line of their choosing. A junior 7-year ATN CA will be a mid level FO, and will be able to hold a 106 trip line, but may have to work either Saturday or Sunday, but probably not both, or move up to a 15 day line.

MatthewAMEL

I'm 29 out of 45 on the 717 in MCO.

In May, I worked and swapped as much as I could and wound up with 115 hours credit and 13 days off.

In June, I slacked (vacation) got 88 hours and 17 days off.

1Seat 1Engine

I guarantee you that even a bottom 15%er FO like me could get better than 135tfp in a 31 day month with 13 days off. No open time or anything, just giveaway and ELITT.

My only problem would be keeping my block under 30/7 and 100/30.

I never want to work that much though. I'm a 12-13 days of work kind of guy and work 95-105tfp.

I've seen low seniority FO's who want to work AVERAGE over 160tfp by bidding reserve and then picking up everything they can in between. Usually works out to 20 days a month but they're averaging over $17000/mo.