The question still remains
10-19-2011, 12:35 PM
#41
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Got news for you luvjock.. DAL ain't scared of the purple plague. You are gonna HELP our bottom line, so thanks for coming to ATL.
10-19-2011, 12:43 PM
#42
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
?? Not sure what you are getting at. It's not like you guys fly anywhere we don't go. However, I'd be more than happy to carry your passengers to Europe, Asia, Africa, Central America, South America, Middle East, and all the domestic cities we go to but you don't. You know, like the AAI destinations out of Atlanta that SWA is dropping.
I say, "BRING IT!"
10-19-2011, 01:46 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
I don't buy into the fact that people disagree with having to have a Type Rating. If it is thought of as unfair or excessive or PFT, then here are the realistic justifications for getting the type rating in order to fly for Southwest:
If the type rating cost let's say between $5000 - $10000 then subtract the amount paid from the first year salary at WN. You will still be quite ahead of first year pay at most other major airlines, if not all of them. The first year F/O can earn 55K-60K.
Also consider what you will earn in the following years- compared to other airlines.
Your treated quite well as a first year F/O on probation, all you got to do is show up for work with a positive attitude and do your best, not that hard to do. WN treats the new F/O great!
There are several ways to improve your schedule thus improving your quality of life! The options available may life better especially if you commute!
Great work rules for those who commute!
A company that treats people quite well!
These are just a few reasons why getting the type is worth so much more than the money it costs. Getting hired with WN is the bigger challenge (especially now a days).
Pilots will complain until their dead, and still sometimes it doesnt stop there. Nobody puts a gun to your head to say you have to do anything, but if you don't want to get the type, you wont get the job at WN.
I feel that AirTran pilots have had two very good offers from WN. Seniority means nothing if pay, quality of life, professional satisfaction are meager. If you were the most senior pilot at the worst airline would that make things better? Or would it be better to be juinor at an airline with much better career earnings, QOL, and actually being happy at work?
If the type rating cost let's say between $5000 - $10000 then subtract the amount paid from the first year salary at WN. You will still be quite ahead of first year pay at most other major airlines, if not all of them. The first year F/O can earn 55K-60K.
Also consider what you will earn in the following years- compared to other airlines.
Your treated quite well as a first year F/O on probation, all you got to do is show up for work with a positive attitude and do your best, not that hard to do. WN treats the new F/O great!
There are several ways to improve your schedule thus improving your quality of life! The options available may life better especially if you commute!
Great work rules for those who commute!
A company that treats people quite well!
These are just a few reasons why getting the type is worth so much more than the money it costs. Getting hired with WN is the bigger challenge (especially now a days).
Pilots will complain until their dead, and still sometimes it doesnt stop there. Nobody puts a gun to your head to say you have to do anything, but if you don't want to get the type, you wont get the job at WN.
I feel that AirTran pilots have had two very good offers from WN. Seniority means nothing if pay, quality of life, professional satisfaction are meager. If you were the most senior pilot at the worst airline would that make things better? Or would it be better to be juinor at an airline with much better career earnings, QOL, and actually being happy at work?
10-19-2011, 03:24 PM
#44
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Glass Guppy
Posts: 73
You know I'm trying to figure out why W/N pilots assume that no one other than SWA treats their people well. I have a lot of friends at W/N but I have never been with anyone at DAL that treated me poorly or that I have bad relations with. All of the pilots I fly with are top notch professionals who I"m proud to fly with. The fact that DAL had a 10 year plus run of bad management (Ron Allen, Leo Mullin) just means that the company took a turn for the worst. In fact, prior to 1993 the DAL family had been famous and around MUCH longer than SWA has been alive. We now have excellent management, are making good money, is a fierce competitor in the market and will do well going forward. Contrary to popular belief not everyone want's to fly the same airplane and the same routes for their entire career and the only thing DAL pilots envy right now is the average W2's of the SWA pilots - THAT's IT. I and many others I know at DAL TURNED down jobs at SWA to go to DAL and wouldn't trade places with you right now. There's a saying - "Pride goeth before the Fall". We're not scared of you in ATL or anywhere else and we expect to fix our pay shortcomings. Good luck with integrating all those happy ATN pilots (nice to have an unhappy 20% of your workforce - so much for that LUVing feeling). As for our interest in your merger it is because we know what happens at other airlines does affect our business - both as pilots and as employees of a competitor. By the way, we wrote the book on how to merge two airlines - Delta/NWA set every standard ever in quickest to Single Operating Certificate!!!! SWA looks like AWA/USAir right now.
I have never assumed SWA was the only place that treats it's people great, but the simple fact remains WN treats their people great. Your right Delta has been around for a long time, good times, bad times.... and your right about people not wanting to fly the same airplane, domestic for their entire career, so says the saying "different strokes for different folks".
Congrats on setting the standards for the merger with NWA, do they feel the same way? Do they like wearing double breasted jackets and hats tilted down the bridge of their noses, looking like they are about to invade poland? (I'm just joking..haha, DAL has a very tight uniform policy, very sharp I must say.)
I am positive DAL is not scared of WN coming to ATL, neither was Braniff, American or United, hence sorta like you say "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall".
WN was co-founded by lawyer from NJ, SWA has been fighting legal battles from the start, it's nothing new. This aquistion of ours will not turn out to be another USAir/AWA debacle. Count on that.
I have known many Delta employees my entire life. There is no doubt they are a great bunch of folks that work for a great company. I never said WN was better than anyone else, but undisputed, WN is a fantastic company to work for!
10-19-2011, 07:36 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 270
I don't buy into the fact that people disagree with having to have a Type Rating. If it is thought of as unfair or excessive or PFT, then here are the realistic justifications for getting the type rating in order to fly for Southwest:
If the type rating cost let's say between $5000 - $10000 then subtract the amount paid from the first year salary at WN. You will still be quite ahead of first year pay at most other major airlines, if not all of them. The first year F/O can earn 55K-60K.
Also consider what you will earn in the following years- compared to other airlines.
Your treated quite well as a first year F/O on probation, all you got to do is show up for work with a positive attitude and do your best, not that hard to do. WN treats the new F/O great!
There are several ways to improve your schedule thus improving your quality of life! The options available may life better especially if you commute!
Great work rules for those who commute!
A company that treats people quite well!
These are just a few reasons why getting the type is worth so much more than the money it costs. Getting hired with WN is the bigger challenge (especially now a days).
Pilots will complain until their dead, and still sometimes it doesnt stop there. Nobody puts a gun to your head to say you have to do anything, but if you don't want to get the type, you wont get the job at WN.
I feel that AirTran pilots have had two very good offers from WN. Seniority means nothing if pay, quality of life, professional satisfaction are meager. If you were the most senior pilot at the worst airline would that make things better? Or would it be better to be juinor at an airline with much better career earnings, QOL, and actually being happy at work?
If the type rating cost let's say between $5000 - $10000 then subtract the amount paid from the first year salary at WN. You will still be quite ahead of first year pay at most other major airlines, if not all of them. The first year F/O can earn 55K-60K.
Also consider what you will earn in the following years- compared to other airlines.
Your treated quite well as a first year F/O on probation, all you got to do is show up for work with a positive attitude and do your best, not that hard to do. WN treats the new F/O great!
There are several ways to improve your schedule thus improving your quality of life! The options available may life better especially if you commute!
Great work rules for those who commute!
A company that treats people quite well!
These are just a few reasons why getting the type is worth so much more than the money it costs. Getting hired with WN is the bigger challenge (especially now a days).
Pilots will complain until their dead, and still sometimes it doesnt stop there. Nobody puts a gun to your head to say you have to do anything, but if you don't want to get the type, you wont get the job at WN.
I feel that AirTran pilots have had two very good offers from WN. Seniority means nothing if pay, quality of life, professional satisfaction are meager. If you were the most senior pilot at the worst airline would that make things better? Or would it be better to be juinor at an airline with much better career earnings, QOL, and actually being happy at work?
+1 for jc73drvr
10-19-2011, 08:40 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B-737 Right
Posts: 243
... I stand by my original statement. The ATN pilots did have to lift a finger (or ten) to get hired at ATN, but they don't have to do anything now to get a SWA ID.
...
Since ATN will cease to exist by next year, I can only assume this question is actually referencing Delta's contract.......
...
Since ATN will cease to exist by next year, I can only assume this question is actually referencing Delta's contract.......
BTW, last I saw we will have Airtran pilots with Airtran ID's on the Airtran contract flying jets with an "a" on the tail until at least April 2014, and possibly until the end of 2014. How did you get the impression that Airtran ceases to exist next year?
10-20-2011, 06:35 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 677
BTW, last I saw we will have Airtran pilots with Airtran ID's on the Airtran contract flying jets with an "a" on the tail until at least April 2014, and possibly until the end of 2014. How did you get the impression that Airtran ceases to exist next year?
10-20-2011, 06:39 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 677
You know I'm trying to figure out why W/N pilots assume that no one other than SWA treats their people well. I have a lot of friends at W/N but I have never been with anyone at DAL that treated me poorly or that I have bad relations with. All of the pilots I fly with are top notch professionals who I"m proud to fly with. The fact that DAL had a 10 year plus run of bad management (Ron Allen, Leo Mullin) just means that the company took a turn for the worst. In fact, prior to 1993 the DAL family had been famous and around MUCH longer than SWA has been alive. We now have excellent management, are making good money, is a fierce competitor in the market and will do well going forward. Contrary to popular belief not everyone want's to fly the same airplane and the same routes for their entire career and the only thing DAL pilots envy right now is the average W2's of the SWA pilots - THAT's IT. I and many others I know at DAL TURNED down jobs at SWA to go to DAL and wouldn't trade places with you right now. There's a saying - "Pride goeth before the Fall". We're not scared of you in ATL or anywhere else and we expect to fix our pay shortcomings. Good luck with integrating all those happy ATN pilots (nice to have an unhappy 20% of your workforce - so much for that LUVing feeling). As for our interest in your merger it is because we know what happens at other airlines does affect our business - both as pilots and as employees of a competitor. By the way, we wrote the book on how to merge two airlines - Delta/NWA set every standard ever in quickest to Single Operating Certificate!!!! SWA looks like AWA/USAir right now.
10-20-2011, 07:14 AM
#49
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
I think based on the competitive response SWA got in both MSP and SLC, that ATL will be more of the same. Anyone who expects the response United gave in DEN is sorely fooling themselves. (I'm looking at you Clark Howard!)
10-20-2011, 08:06 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Here is what I don't understand. If Southwest is so much better than Airtran, and the SWAPA skygods are able to negotiate any deal they desire, why are they so afraid of arbitration? I mean if EVERYONE can plainly see how superior the SWA pilots are, won't the arbitrators also see it?
This is what perplexes me. The Southwest pilots are so superior, yet they have to act like whiny little b**ches and go get the big DADDY (management) to go threaten the Airtran pilots. Why the threats? Why can't you just go to arbitration like grown men and accept the results?
This is nothing more than extortion. This is what the mafia does, they go to small businesses and they get "insurance" payments to insure that their business doesn't burn down. Now Gary Kelly is asking for "seniority" payments to insure that Airtran pilots don't get furloughed. He is no better than a common criminal and the SWA pilots are whiny little babies that rely on others to do their dirty work for them. That is why everyone is so disgusted with you all. You act so superior and yet you cry like babies when faced with defending your superiority in a neutral setting. Now you rely on extortion to steal what you can't get in a fair fight.
If your contract is so great, if your airline is so great, if the Airtran pilots are so lucky, then why are you quaking in your boots about arbitration? The other question I have to ask myself is if I should ever let a Southwest pilot on my jumpseat ever again. You behavior is so disgusting that it is difficult to contemplate.
This is what perplexes me. The Southwest pilots are so superior, yet they have to act like whiny little b**ches and go get the big DADDY (management) to go threaten the Airtran pilots. Why the threats? Why can't you just go to arbitration like grown men and accept the results?
This is nothing more than extortion. This is what the mafia does, they go to small businesses and they get "insurance" payments to insure that their business doesn't burn down. Now Gary Kelly is asking for "seniority" payments to insure that Airtran pilots don't get furloughed. He is no better than a common criminal and the SWA pilots are whiny little babies that rely on others to do their dirty work for them. That is why everyone is so disgusted with you all. You act so superior and yet you cry like babies when faced with defending your superiority in a neutral setting. Now you rely on extortion to steal what you can't get in a fair fight.
If your contract is so great, if your airline is so great, if the Airtran pilots are so lucky, then why are you quaking in your boots about arbitration? The other question I have to ask myself is if I should ever let a Southwest pilot on my jumpseat ever again. You behavior is so disgusting that it is difficult to contemplate.
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