The question still remains
10-30-2011, 01:01 PM
#211
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I think you're missing my point, or I'm not being clear. The latter is likely. I'll try again;
In late 2012 or early 2013 AirTran pilots flying 717's will transfer to the SWA side and then be SWAPA pilots per SL10. They will however be paid a B scale to fly the 717 whilst they are SWAPA pilots until 2015. If however an 'original' SWA pilot flies the 717 he will be paid a rate equal to 737 rates.
You will have SWAPA pilots on a B scale flying the 717 in late 2012 -2013. SWAPA negotiated the B scale for its future members in Side Letter 10. You amended your own CBA to include the B Scale for former AirTran/now SWAPA pilots.
Clear ?
In late 2012 or early 2013 AirTran pilots flying 717's will transfer to the SWA side and then be SWAPA pilots per SL10. They will however be paid a B scale to fly the 717 whilst they are SWAPA pilots until 2015. If however an 'original' SWA pilot flies the 717 he will be paid a rate equal to 737 rates.
You will have SWAPA pilots on a B scale flying the 717 in late 2012 -2013. SWAPA negotiated the B scale for its future members in Side Letter 10. You amended your own CBA to include the B Scale for former AirTran/now SWAPA pilots.
Clear ?
10-30-2011, 01:09 PM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
It occurred to me that he may not know that the 717's will transfer to the SWA side 2012/13, and then be under the SWAPA CBA. Although, the B Scale is contained in SWAPA's SL10. So is the statement that a 'real SWA' pilot flying the 717 will be paid 737 rates.
10-30-2011, 02:47 PM
#213
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Oh no, he knows. He is the one guy on here that has been citing chapter and verse all the intricacies of this "agreement". He just doesn't want to be on record with his answer, although he did say something about if it were up to him the rates would be the same, but that is easy to say at this point because it ISN'T up to him. As to whether a "real SWA" pilot will get that payrate, I would guess the proof is in the pudding. I am guessing that they won't stoop to flying that airplane, especially GK has made little secret of his intent toward the 717. I know the DAL pilots would love to see that airplane here, but Mr. Anderson has indicated no interest whatsoever. I guess if Boeing takes them back from SWA and makes us a great deal... but I wouldn't count on that.
10-30-2011, 03:28 PM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
If I'm not mistaken, the 717 is fenced off from current SWA pilots so I'm trying to understand the circumstances that would have to occur that would put a current SWA pilot on the 717 between now and 2015.
Not baiting, I just really thought that couldn't happen.
Not baiting, I just really thought that couldn't happen.
10-30-2011, 03:31 PM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Oh no, he knows. He is the one guy on here that has been citing chapter and verse all the intricacies of this "agreement". He just doesn't want to be on record with his answer, although he did say something about if it were up to him the rates would be the same, but that is easy to say at this point because it ISN'T up to him. As to whether a "real SWA" pilot will get that payrate, I would guess the proof is in the pudding. I am guessing that they won't stoop to flying that airplane, especially GK has made little secret of his intent toward the 717. I know the DAL pilots would love to see that airplane here, but Mr. Anderson has indicated no interest whatsoever. I guess if Boeing takes them back from SWA and makes us a great deal... but I wouldn't count on that.
10-30-2011, 03:32 PM
#216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Furloughs.
10-30-2011, 05:26 PM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
So it's not a B scale, it's pay protection in case of furlough?
I think a wide majority of SWA pilots would support a single pay rate across aircraft types. We've consistently voted that way in the past.
I think a wide majority of SWA pilots would support a single pay rate across aircraft types. We've consistently voted that way in the past.
10-30-2011, 06:04 PM
#218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: B717 FO
Posts: 210
The B scale is only applicable to AT guys in the 717 even after they put on the SWA uniform. Any SWA guy, even new hires, will get 737 pay. Of course, after Jan 1, 2015 all rates are supposed to be the same.
10-30-2011, 06:26 PM
#219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
The rates have been agreed to and the time frame as to when those rates are applicable have been agreed to. The deal negotiation has been done with no real room to change it. Our CBA becomes ammendable September of 2012. I would assume that any 717 rate of pay established in the new CBA will apply to all pilots that have transitioned to SWA, but not to the ones represented by ALPA. I would love to fly the 717, it would provide some variety. Yes I have stated the sooner the better with regard to creating parity in 717 and 737 rates and I still support that 100%.
Furloughs .... ? Or the addition of more 717's to replace your convertible 737-300's. Followed by crews on two differnt pay scales flying the same jet. It's amusing to hear SWA guys paying lip service to pay parity when SWAPA eagerly and actively agreed to a B Scale. I'll refer you to SL10 for those of you that "haven't read the documents"
Have fun on the 717 and good luck. Remember your audience.
10-30-2011, 06:45 PM
#220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Yes ..... Yes, that's right. It's not really a B Scale.
Despite the fact that all of the non SWA 717 pilots on the wrong side of the fence can be furloughed out of seniority.Read Side Letter 10. When you vote Yes for this agreement, you are also voting yes for a B Scale for former AirTran SWAPA 717 pilots and an A Scale for original SWA 717 pilots. But, you already new that. Right ?
Thankfully, the kind and decent pilots of SWA are already thinking about fixing the B Scale 'next time'. After they encourage their members to vote for it 'this time'.
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