shoelu

The short answer is no. AT pilots will not be covered by the SWAPA CBA until they have transferred to the SWA side through a "transition bid." Prior to a transition bid they are covered by the AT CBA currently in place.

tsquare

So the other part of my question remains. Wouldn't it be in the best interest of SWAPA to negotiate those equal 717 rates when you start section 6? Or are they content to basically say FU to those guys? I mean it IS a foregone conclusion that they are coming to SWAPA, nobody in ALPA has any illusions to the contrary. Why would you not do that?

shoelu

I don't know what to say to you to make you understand that the portions of this deal concerning pay and who gets what pay at what time have already been decided. I understand that you are looking in to this from the outside and don't clearly understand the deal that is on the table. All I can say is that I am trying to the best of my abilities to illuminate the true mechanics of this deal. I have accurately quoted the specific portions of the agreement to back up my assestions. If you simply don't agree, then so be it. SWAPA cannot change in any real sense what ALPA has in fact negotiated for their pilots. If it was up to me the AT folks would be living under SWA pay rates for the 737 while operating the 717. SWA management offered those pay rates in the first offer, so I am completely certain that they can afford them. The deal currently on the table has hard numbers as to who will receive what pay for the aircraft they are flying. I do not see any opportunity to change the specifics of this agreement through section 6 negotiations. if it is indeed there then I will wholeheartedly back SWAPA's assertion that we can in fact alter the deal that is currently on the table to place AT employees onto the SWAPA pay scale as quickly as possible. AT pay rates in no way effect my W2 compensation. The quicker we can get AT pilots on parity with SWA pilots, the better.

SherpaLifter

Along with a massive seniority grab, including a 650 pilot staple. However, had we had more specific information about GK and Herb's threats to our jobs and our family's financial security, we might have accepted those rates.

SherpaLifter

Shoelu for SWAPA president!!

shoelu

Please read and understand the deal that is currently offered.

tsquare

Are you evading the question or are you just being obtuse? Let me try this again. You are going into section 6, and that means you will be able to negotiate anything that comes up. You could negotiate 747 pay rates if you wanted to. Now assuming that since you and management have such a cozy relationship, I am guessing that your contract will not drag past 2015 so you would have the ability to bring those 717 rates up to your current level, in spite of the fact that they are not currently a part of your group. That is of course if you don't want to bring them up...

LuvJockey

It would be in everybody's best interest to negotiate 717 pay rates that are at parity on the 737. It will be part of our Section 6. I would bet that the negotiations will drag along for quite a while.

shoelu

I am not evading the question or being obtuse. We could negotiate space shuttle rates if we wanted to and those rates would be applied to all SWAPA pilots. Where you are clearly missing the point is the fact that anything we negotiate ONLY covers SWAPA pilots. This deal is very specific as to when ALPA pilots transition to SWAPA pilots. We will be unable to fine tune any agreements that ALPA entered in to on behalf of their pilots. Once you are a SWAPA pilot you will be entitled to any SWAPA negotiated rate. If the benevolent pilots of Delta decided that their DCI carriers were simply not paid enough and deserved a raise, I'm sure they could change the pay rates through their section 6 negotiations, correct? That is what you are implying should be done here. ANYTHING SWAPA NEGOTIATES ONLY COVERS SWAPA PILOTS. When ALPA pilots transition to SWAPA pilots all portions of our agreement will be conferred upon them including pay. AT ALPA has a clause that states only ALPA can negotiate on their behalf, we have one too and I am sure all agreements have similar wording.

RCD73

I think you're missing my point, or I'm not being clear. The latter is likely. I'll try again;

In late 2012 or early 2013 AirTran pilots flying 717's will transfer to the SWA side and then be SWAPA pilots per SL10. They will however be paid a B scale to fly the 717 whilst they are SWAPA pilots until 2015. If however an 'original' SWA pilot flies the 717 he will be paid a rate equal to 737 rates.

You will have SWAPA pilots on a B scale flying the 717 in late 2012 -2013. SWAPA negotiated the B scale for its future members in Side Letter 10. You amended your own CBA to include the B Scale for former AirTran/now SWAPA pilots.

Clear ?