jc73drvr

Our leather jackets are way cooler!

1Seat 1Engine

No jokes, images or cartoons of Herb are allowed or we will have to kill you.

Here's Herb at the last board meeting:

Life of Brian - YouTube

RCD73

SWAPA would however sell scope in order for AirTran to be run separately if this went to Arbitration ...... Right ? A fair and equitable SLI awarded by three Arbiters would have SWAPA begging GK to run an alter ego airline under their noses.

When SWAPA negotiates their new contract in 2012 it will be very clear whether they have any backbone. The bet at AirTran is that they'll continue with the 717 B Scale. If that is the case, then SWAPA will have ticked two boxes on the 'Union failure list' ;

1. A willingness to allow management to run a separate airline in order to avoid an arbitrated list, and

2. A negotiated B Scale inhabited by a sub culture within their own union.

shoelu

To the first question, no one knows. It would have to go to a vote, and no one can accurately predict that outcome.

To the second question, absolutely not. Per the AIP 717 rates will automatically snap up to 737 rates.

RCD73

Snap Up ? SWAPA will allow the B Scale for their own members flying the 717 until 2015, correct ? Despite the fact that they could change that in the contract negotiated in 2012.

1Seat 1Engine

I beleive the offer to pay everyone the same rate was refused.

shoelu

AirTran pilots are covered by the SWAPA CBA upon entering training as Southwest pilots. Once you become a SWAPA member you will be eligible to be represented by SWAPA, until that time your representation is ALPA as per the agreement. Any negotiated rates in contract 2012 will apply to any former AT pilots that have made the jump to Southwest. If you want us to negotiate rates for ALPA, we can't, ALPA negotiated those rates. If you think that SWAPA will try and negotiate anything other than equity with 737 rates for the 717 that is ludicrous. This agreement already says that the 717 rates will be equal to the 737 rates December 31, 2014. If you want us to go back and change what the rates that ALPA negotiated for ALPA members are, it simply can't be done. SWAPA can only negotiate for SWAPA members.

RCD73

Excellent. The first SWAPA represented 717 pilots will begin appearing in Nov. 2012. I'm sure that their union (SWAPA) won't leave them on a B scale ..... Will they ?

ALPA didn't "negotiate" anything. AirTran pilots had this agreement shoved down their throat by GK while SWAPA sat back and sniggered. We have a choice between immediate separate ops and eventual unemployment, or vote yes.

You're being coy Shoelu. This is the new reality and it's not pretty. You got 350 Captain seats and 1000 pilots on a B scale who can be furloughed out of seniority.

shoelu

I am beginning to realize that those that truly have skin in this game have not in fact fully read and understood the agreements that are currently on the table. If you don't educate yourself as to what you are agreeing to then do so at your own peril. If you think our section 6 negotiations will change this portion of the agreement, I simply don't agree. We are powerless to change any of the agreement as it pertains to AT pilots. As soon as you are SWAPA pilots any and all benefits negotiated for SWAPA pilots will in fact be conveyed upon those covered by the SWAPA agreement.

6. Reference to Section 4.C.

Effective January 1, 2015, the B717 rates will snap up to B737 rates
applicable in the CBA at that time. Until such time, current AirTran
pilots’ B717 pay rates will remain at the AirTran rate, adjusted as
needed for TFP/block hour conversion and any applicable increase
per the AirTran CBA.

This portion has already been agreed to. If you want to change it you can do so with a no vote.

tsquare

So then what is the purpose of this agreement that is being "forced" on everybody? When this is ratified, will the AT guys not come under the pervue of the SWAPA contract? In case they aren't at that time, what would prevent SWAPA from negotiating a 717 rate equal to that of the 737 so that when the AT pilots ARE brought under SWAPA in a CBA, they would immediately be brought up to those rates? It seems that if SWAPA is truly interested in fostering harmony with the new guys, this is EXACTLY what they would do.. or perhaps that "LUV" is simple hyperbole.