80ktsClamp

And how is that the airtran pilot group's problem?

skybolt

There's no logic to your argument. The AT junior Captain who left, voluntarily left AT in 2008. That is unfortunate, but it is just part of life. His action was voluntary. AT "acquired" pilots had no choice in the matter.

shoelu

Here is a newsflash: neither did the Southwest pilots.

V169

No argument - just some fair & balanced reporting to refute the notion here on the Delta Pilots Playpen that SWA/SWAPA is "screwing" all of the AT pilots. There are lots of junior SWA guys who would beg to differ. "What a train wreck ..." "The demise of the industry ..." and I get accused of being "dramatic"?

newKnow

Before the merger, without Air Tran, what was the timeframe he was looking to upgrade in?

skybolt

Ahhh, but you did. You interviewed and were hired by SWA.

You still work for SWA. You knew the game you were ante-ing in to, and it hasn't changed. The AT pilots ante'd in to a stud game and find themselves playing Texas Hold Em.

BTW, I'm actually not against SWA/SWAPA in this deal. Largely because I've come to believe on thing I consider to be undeniable. Which is: seniority only has relevance at the airline which hired you. Once the BOD and/or CEO of your company decides that your company no longer exists, your seniority is worth nothing in the modern world. Just my opinion.

Yes, the AT (and any acquired/merged airline) pilots have a right to an arbitrated SL, but reality would appear to show us that getting to the point of actually implementing a arbitrated list is almost impossible in today's legal environment. When I first started following this topic I understood why the AT pilots rejected a deal that was to them one sided. As time passes, I'm convinced that SWA can likely do whatever it wants with AT.

I posted in this topic because I'm appalled at the attitude you guys, SWAPA dudes, displayed FROM THE BEGINNING towards the AT rank and file. For example, I had a SWA FO in my jumpseat before the first deal was even offered who made the threat of SWA piecing out AT if the AT pilots didn't "take what SWAPA" offered. I was in the back of a SWA airplane, sitting beside a SWA pilot around the same time and that SWA pilot made the same claim. The story goes somewhat like this: GK has already assured SWAPA that he will shut down AT if the AT pilots don't take SWAPA's deal - that SWA would bring the aircraft over one by one and shrink AT into oblivion. IOW, my opinion came from personal interaction with SWA pilots. BTW, I don't know a single AT pilot and haven't had one on my jumpseat nor vice versa.

To be honest, I've been disappointed by the attitudes exhibited by the SWA pilot group regarding their new fellow employees. And I want to know this, will SWAPA roll over when SWA dictates the next CBA? If you use the same tactics in contract negotiations you expect AT pilots to use in SLI negotiations, you will take whatever SWA offers.

skybolt

Exactly, and he must have known that when he interviewed and hired on to SWA.

newKnow

You will find that my question will be ignored. Apparently, because I'm like Bruce Willis in the 6th Sense, and not because they don't have a good answer.

skybolt

For some reason, the SWA participants on these threads ignore that we all make personal choices for personal reasons. For myself, I've chosen to stay at Spirit even though the pay is moderate and aircraft are dirty because my seniority allows me to get some days I want off. I could try SWA again, or apply elsewhere but I don't because I'm not willing to trade QOL for cash. I can only imagine that many such as myself work at AT. I feel for those guys.

Smokey23

No one knows for sure when they will ever upgrade. Will the airline grow again? Will they decide to buy another airline? Will we see age-70 retirements? When will the recession end? Who will occupy the White House in 2013? What will oil prices do? Is al-Qaeda still obsessed with airliners?

You're dealing with a hypothetical, of course. That a good enough answer?