Clear Right

Someone please explain to me why SWA/SWAPA does not just propose a fair relative ratio solution that takes into account the age of the AirTran pilot group, maybe say a 5% hit to FL relative seniority. As well as the pay raise differential, say another 5% hit to relative seniority and get the deal done. So worst case FL pilots take a 10% seniority hit, but there are no Staples to FL F/Os and FL Captains get to remain captains. This seems very fair to me, and would avoid arbitration and avoid the SWAPA or FL ALPA court challenges that could get drawn out forever, i.e. AmWest/UsAir. I assume the answer from SWA folks would be "10% is not enough," is that a fair assumption?

shoelu

First of all, this deal is already done. All relevant language has already been finalized. The SWAPA Side Letter and the AirTran letter of agreement to the respective CBA's are not going to be revised. This whole deal is now going to go to a ratification vote on both sides. If this deal fails to pass ratification on either side, the next step in the process is arbitration.

But lets look at what you assert in your post. Do you really think that it is SWAPA's responsibility to negotiate with SWA for ALPA? Do you honestly believe that the duty of my union would be to attempt to bargain for the other side of the equation to the detriment of its own dues paying members? Are you serious when you say that SWAPA's duty is to negotiate the best deal they can for ALPA? If this was the case, there would also be recall hearings to remove our representation just like is currently going on at AT ALPA.

Phlintsone

I think I can answer that one. The actions of SWA/SWAPA and in a few cases ther words imply that AT pilots are beneath them. Therefore a fair, relative ration means SWA/SWAPA must accept the AT pilots as peers. They do not. SWA/SWAPA wanted all AT pilots to be on probation when they crossed the fence but did not get that concession. Their arrogance is astounding.

Phred

newKnow

Is that arbitration supposed to be binding?

Why didn't you guys just negotiate for yourselves?

newKnow

I mean do they have to go in seniority order from the arbitrated list.

Sniper

Please . . .

'Southwest Airlines Company' has acquired 4 carriers:

• Muse Air
• Morris Air
• ATA
• AirTran

Look at how each of these groups were integrated. Look @ how the Frontier pilots were going to be treated.

A pariah? Hah! If SWAPA and their pilots aren't already a pariah now after stapling or refusing to even integrate 1,000's of pilots employed with airlines their company voluntarily acquired, what makes you think they will be a pariah now after a couple thousand more pilots get 'welcomed' to Southwest?

Are the AA pilots pariahs b/c of the way they treated the TWA pilots?

Sniper

never mind

newKnow

1.) Was Air Tran about to go bankrupt?
2.) Was Mc Caskill/Bond (MB)law then?
3.) After MB, and after agreeing to go to arbitration, did American management threaten to sell off TWA assets and put the pilots on the street if they didn't do what they were told?

Sniper

Not relevant. The reasoning 'tsquare' used was "resultant downgrades and furloughs for the ATI (only) guys" = pariah.

The integration resulted in almost exclusively TWA pilots being furloughed and downgraded (a couple nAAtives were furloughed).

All things considered, what the AA pilots did to the TWA pilots is much better than what Southwest has done to ANY pilot group they've acquired.

shoelu

Sometimes your most effective bargaining position stems form knowing when to shut the hell up.