AIP2 approved by SWAPA BOD and ATN MEC
09-27-2011, 07:00 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Yet, you and every other SWA pilot pilot has posted on here that SWA management will not let this go to arbitration, that they will fire every AAI pilot if they vote down the agreement and force arbitration. Don't those statements indicate that SWA and SWAPA do not intend to follow the process agreement?
IOW, you say that there is a process agreement that does include arbitration, agreed by you and the company, and then say that if it comes to it, the company will not follow their agreement and instead terminate everyone.
This is what is confusing to me. Is SWA and SWAPA going to follow the agreement to go to arbitration if it gets voted down and accept the results, or are they going to get medieval on the AAI pilots?
IOW, you say that there is a process agreement that does include arbitration, agreed by you and the company, and then say that if it comes to it, the company will not follow their agreement and instead terminate everyone.
This is what is confusing to me. Is SWA and SWAPA going to follow the agreement to go to arbitration if it gets voted down and accept the results, or are they going to get medieval on the AAI pilots?
Anyone that says they know what SWA will do if they feel an arbitrated list is unpalatable is blowing smoke unless you are speaking directly to GK himself. Unfortunately management does not share their long range plans with the pilot group. To imply that the pilot group is the one that will make that decision is simply incorrect.
In the end if this negotiated settlement is ratified it will be a moot point anyway.
Last edited by shoelu; 09-27-2011 at 07:13 PM.
09-27-2011, 07:51 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,353
I have never stated this will not go to arbitration, I have stated that there is no law that would compel SWA to combine the two operations.
Anyone that says they know what SWA will do if they feel an arbitrated list is unpalatable is blowing smoke unless you are speaking directly to GK himself. Unfortunately management does not share their long range plans with the pilot group. To imply that the pilot group is the one that will make that decision is simply incorrect.
In the end if this negotiated settlement is ratified it will be a moot point anyway.
Anyone that says they know what SWA will do if they feel an arbitrated list is unpalatable is blowing smoke unless you are speaking directly to GK himself. Unfortunately management does not share their long range plans with the pilot group. To imply that the pilot group is the one that will make that decision is simply incorrect.
In the end if this negotiated settlement is ratified it will be a moot point anyway.
Congratulations, SWAPA = USAPA...
09-27-2011, 08:08 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
1.) Does SWAPA have to accept the new members into the union (and therefore represent them fairly)?
2.) If furloughs occur, do they have to occur on one side only or do they have to go in seniority order?
Before you answer, are you sure?
09-27-2011, 08:41 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
I think the part that makes SWA and SWAPA (and those SWA pilots who support those), pathetic, is that you agreed to a process that included arbitration if it came to it, but everyone on your side of the fence is saying "if we don't like it, we won't do it".
Congratulations, SWAPA = USAPA...
Congratulations, SWAPA = USAPA...
09-27-2011, 09:08 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
If you have an arbitrated list and every pilot has a number:
1.) Does SWAPA have to accept the new members into the union (and therefore represent them fairly)?
2.) If furloughs occur, do they have to occur on one side only or do they have to go in seniority order?
Before you answer, are you sure?
1.) Does SWAPA have to accept the new members into the union (and therefore represent them fairly)?
2.) If furloughs occur, do they have to occur on one side only or do they have to go in seniority order?
Before you answer, are you sure?
If in fact separate operations are ever begun, I cannot see a scenario where SWAPA could or would represent pilots not currently flying aircraft on the Southwest operating certificate.
09-28-2011, 05:01 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B-737 Right
Posts: 243
First of all, anything can be litigated, and it is impossible to know the outcome of that process. All anyome can rely on is the advice of experts hired to give opinions.
If in fact separate operations are ever begun, I cannot see a scenario where SWAPA could or would represent pilots not currently flying aircraft on the Southwest operating certificate.
If in fact separate operations are ever begun, I cannot see a scenario where SWAPA could or would represent pilots not currently flying aircraft on the Southwest operating certificate.
To get through the court system, including subsequent appeals, will take 5-10 years. SWA mgmt is aware that SWAPA would likely challenge in court any arbitrated list they do not like. SWA mgmt seemingly does not want to wait 5-10 years.
09-28-2011, 05:33 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Of course, as every SWA pilot knows, the outcome is irrelevant.
To get through the court system, including subsequent appeals, will take 5-10 years. SWA mgmt is aware that SWAPA would likely challenge in court any arbitrated list they do not like. SWA mgmt seemingly does not want to wait 5-10 years.
To get through the court system, including subsequent appeals, will take 5-10 years. SWA mgmt is aware that SWAPA would likely challenge in court any arbitrated list they do not like. SWA mgmt seemingly does not want to wait 5-10 years.
09-28-2011, 06:36 AM
#68
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
09-28-2011, 06:39 AM
#69
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
You are exactly right. But what your leadership is apparently engaged in is.... "pathetic". It is a no win for the line guys in terms of your appearance to the rest of the industry. Maybe ya'll don't care.. maybe you do. I can tell you this though, if this deal goes thru as proposed an there are resultant downgrades and furloughs for the ATI (only) guys, ya'll will be a pariah as a group. Just sayin'
09-28-2011, 06:42 AM
#70
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
THAT would be interesting. What if at that point, the ATI guys threatened a strike/work stoppage? Since there would be no JCBA, and they were separate operators, could that be a possibility? IF it were to come down as a strike, (not likely, just what if'n), would the SWA guys then fly that struck work? HOW would you identify what work was struck???
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