forgot to bid

No kidding.

But hey, even SWA pilots turn SWA threads into DAL threads now! We sure know how to institutionalize don't we?

Now back to plan C, why wouldnt it just be give up the merger and walk away and someone would need to buy FL and hire a management team that knows how to say "Delta minus $10, $69 tickets on Tuesday at 6am..." ?

and the FL MEC approved this or this time they want the pilots to be able to vote?

scambo1

Okay, no skin in the game and I havent really been paying attention, but I've got a couple questions:

1. Why is this agreement going to a membership vote when the previous one didn't?

2. Is this sli markedly improved over the previous one such that ALPA found it to be a fair representation of the transition agreement?

3. Who wins and who loses (big picture) in this proposal (by seniority block)?

4. Do I sense fear in the air from ALPA on this or is this a good deal?

Not intended as flamebait, but I think the questions are fair.

SherpaLifter

Scambo, I'm not an expert but here is what I'm hearing...

After the first AIP was turned down by the MEC, AT went back to the table with a new offer. SWA said they wouldn't even negotiate unless the MEC guaranteed that any agreement would be sent out to a vote by the entire pilot group. The MEC agreed. Then Herb and Colleen walked into the room and made specific threats as to what would happen if an agreement wasn't reached. SWA rejected the AirTran proposal and said here is our new proposal....we will give your guys a few more numbers on the integrated list, but no AirTran pilot comes to SWA as a B737 captain. You can be a SWA B737FO, SWA B717 captain or SWA B717 fo. The new AIP has no base protections, seat protections (except B717 until 2015), SWA pay now starts when you go to training (instead of April 2012 under the old AIP). A small number of B737 AT pilots will actually convert to SWA in 2012. No 717 conversions until 2013. Most AT guys will lose $40K - $100K by the delay to SWA rates. Junior AT 737 fo's may get displaced to the 717 and then not on SWA rates until late 2014. Still stapling the bottom 450 AT fo's. Furlough protections not as good as AIP1. Most all AT pilots will end up commuting. Compared to AIP1, AIP2 is much worse financially for AirTran guys and gals. SWA has made it clear that if they turn it down, AT pilots will not be assimilated and can file for unemployment.

The winners are SWA and SWAPA, if it passes. SWA will pay AT pilots a lot less during the conversion. SWAPA wins with 300+ fo's who will get AT captain seats over the next 2 years, the top 1300 guys get an entire airline (1800) below them, and the majority of the rest of the SWA list gets AT pilots below them at DOH minus 2 to 3 years (a much better deal than arbitration would have given them). The AirTran guys get.....to keep their job and eventually someday get a raise. The biggest loser may be a climate of trust and respect between GK and his new employees.

There is now a recall vote underway for certain members of the AT MEC who supposedly withheld the threats that were made during negotiations for AIP1 from the membership. Had this info been publicly acknowledged, AIP1 may have gone out for a vote and passed and the current state of affairs wouldn't be quite so draconian.

Hope this helps.

johnso29

Vote no. Take it to arbitration.

johnso29

Seems to me that would defeat the entire purpose of purchasing AT to begin with.

And bring the entire operation to a halt? How would they staff all of the 737's? Would they do it over time? Seems counter productive to the acquisition.

USN C9B

The promise is that AT pilots (and probably the other AT employees) will be on the street within two years if the pilots vote no....there will be no arbitration of any kind. So the yes or no vote IMHO is that not whether you accept the SLI but whether you want a job with SWA. This might not be the case but if is the impression of a lot of AT pilots.

C9

Clear Right

Wow...If this new proposal is true and SWA/SWAPA can strong arm the SLI in this manner, someone please explain to me what ALPA is worth? My point is not to accuse SWA/SWAPA clearly they are looking out for the best interests of their pilot group and the company. But what exactly is ALPA doing for the AirTran pilot group, clearly they are powerless in negotiations with SWA/SWAPA. Someone please help justify ALPAs existence and dues??

Eric Stratton

A buddy of mine at Airtran said they had a Seniority Integration Clause in their contract if they were bought. How would this not be enforceable with this merger? How could GK and Southwest just fire all of the pilots if they voted no?

Justdoinmyjob

I don't think there was any negotiating at all. Sounds like SWA management walked in the room, told SWAPA to go sit over there and be quiet and then proceeded to dictate terms to ALPA. APA probably wouldn't have any better traction than ALPA. Kinda hard to negotiate with someone who has no intention of negotiating or of honoring any signed agreements.

Clear Right

Exactly my point! Not trying to Hijack the thread, but if SWA management can dictate the terms of the SLI, then what is the point of having ALPA? Everyone says how a CBA with ALPA protects the pilot group during a merger/acquisition, but the particular case clearly demonstrates how worthless ALPA is. I am not taking an opinion on the SWA/AirTran specifics, but it seems to me arbitration would benefit the AirTran pilot group, which quite clearly SWA management will not allow. So again, what does ALPA do for a pilot group again for their dues??