AIP2 approved by SWAPA BOD and ATN MEC
09-28-2011, 10:02 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 270
I think I can answer that one. The actions of SWA/SWAPA and in a few cases ther words imply that AT pilots are beneath them. Therefore a fair, relative ration means SWA/SWAPA must accept the AT pilots as peers. They do not. SWA/SWAPA wanted all AT pilots to be on probation when they crossed the fence but did not get that concession. Their arrogance is astounding.
Phred
Phred
09-28-2011, 10:17 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 270
I think I can answer that based on what I have observed during this process so far. It seems as if SWAPA is a little whipped by daddy (GK). On a more positive note, I honestly think that if SWAPA negotiated this on their own with ALPA (perhaps like a lot of other unions in this industry do), this clustercrap of affairs wouldn't be taking place. I think that there would be far less animosity towards each other and perhaps people could look forward to working with each other as one company without the bitterness. A lot of people have seem to have forgotten or maybe just didn't know in the first place........It wasn't SWAPA that wrote out the AIP's. It was ALL SWA MANAGEMENT'S DOING. So the AT guys/gals can thank their future management for proposing a list that screws them over, not SWAPA. SWAPA just sat back in timeout as if they were on punishment and let daddy do his thing.
09-28-2011, 10:20 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
You are exactly right. But what your leadership is apparently engaged in is.... "pathetic". It is a no win for the line guys in terms of your appearance to the rest of the industry. Maybe ya'll don't care.. maybe you do. I can tell you this though, if this deal goes thru as proposed an there are resultant downgrades and furloughs for the ATI (only) guys, ya'll will be a pariah as a group. Just sayin'
All I can really request from my fellow airline pilots is fair treatment when I humbly request to ride on your jumpseat. I expect that most pilots will welcome me if I respectfully ask for the priviledge of a ride on your aircraft. Fom the vast majority of my experiences I have been treated with the same respect that I have offerd in the process. I can only expect that that process will continue regardless of the politics of the negotiations currently taking place.
As a side note, I would like to say that many off line jumpseaters are not aware that you are welcome to pre-boarrd on Southwest if you are jumpseating on our aircraft. I often see jumpseaters coming on board at the last minute and relegated to a middle seat.
09-29-2011, 07:21 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
I think I can answer that based on what I have observed during this process so far. It seems as if SWAPA is a little whipped by daddy (GK). On a more positive note, I honestly think that if SWAPA negotiated this on their own with ALPA (perhaps like a lot of other unions in this industry do), this clustercrap of affairs wouldn't be taking place. I think that there would be far less animosity towards each other and perhaps people could look forward to working with each other as one company without the bitterness. A lot of people have seem to have forgotten or maybe just didn't know in the first place........It wasn't SWAPA that wrote out the AIP's. It was ALL SWA MANAGEMENT'S DOING. So the AT guys/gals can thank their future management for proposing a list that screws them over, not SWAPA. SWAPA just sat back in timeout as if they were on punishment and let daddy do his thing.
Craig Patrick: Hey, Doc, let me ask you a question.
Doc: Well, of course.
Craig Patrick: You've worked with Herb for a long time, right?
Doc: I've known Herb for quite some time.
Craig Patrick: So let me ask you, does he always treat his players like this?
Doc: No... no, this I have never seen. No - but Craig, Herb has a reason for everything he does.
Craig Patrick: Well, he's gonna end up with 20 players who hate his guts.
Doc: Well, maybe if they hate him they won't have time to hate each other.
You may not see the relevance, but I sure do. Herb Brooks was a very unorthodox coach, but he knew how to win games.
09-29-2011, 08:46 AM
#95
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
While I can understand what you are going for here, unifying the troops and such by giving them a common enemy, there is a difference between doing it to win games and utilizing it in a service based industry.
In a game, you don't care what the other team thinks. In a service based industry, you may get the same results Major Reisman was after.
IOW, there may be so much anger, some of it will undoubtedly spill over onto the customers and drive away business. Disgruntled employees are bad for business.
09-29-2011, 09:56 AM
#96
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
At least you openly admit you're arrogant. I will not openly engage in a jumpseat war, because some of my fellow pilots might need to ride on yours someday. You might need to ride on mine since your own company's jumpseats might become hostile. Good luck with that.
09-29-2011, 11:10 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
If arrogance means that you have little care about the meaningless banter put forth on anonymous web boards by pundits that believe they are the keeper of all knowledge, then yes I will admit to being extremely arrogant.
09-29-2011, 11:22 AM
#98
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Nice to have the luxury to do that when the cards are so obviously stacked on your favor. Enjoy it while it lasts. I think you and I have nothing else to say to one another.
10-01-2011, 09:07 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: erb
Posts: 646
Someone please explain to me why SWA/SWAPA does not just propose a fair relative ratio solution that takes into account the age of the AirTran pilot group, maybe say a 5% hit to FL relative seniority. As well as the pay raise differential, say another 5% hit to relative seniority and get the deal done. So worst case FL pilots take a 10% seniority hit, but there are no Staples to FL F/Os and FL Captains get to remain captains. This seems very fair to me, and would avoid arbitration and avoid the SWAPA or FL ALPA court challenges that could get drawn out forever, i.e. AmWest/UsAir. I assume the answer from SWA folks would be "10% is not enough," is that a fair assumption?
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