sailingfun

SW signed a transition agreement. They are going to have to abide by that agreement. If they decide at some point to sell assets then which pilots come over would be based of the combined list. Delta is not likely however to take the Airtran pilots with the aircraft since the aircraft would mostly be replacements for retired and retiring aircraft. To take the pilots would lead to a massive furlough. If on the other hand SW sold Delta the planes and the gates so that the result was a complete transfer of a operation then Delta should take the pilots as they did when they bought a portion of PanAm. That seems somewhat unlikely because if SW had that type of intent they would have never bought Airtran in the first place.
The planes are somewhat meaningless. The assets that allow you to operate the aircraft such as gates and route authorities are what is important.
Before Delta took on the 717's and brought in a bunch of pilots that would lead to furloughs and lots of upset pilots the would simply purchase another airframe. Delta can have 50 100 seat airframes on the property in a matter of months if they wanted them. I still don't think they are interested in that option or the 717's. Again aircraft don't mean a thing unless you have the gates and routes to operate them. If you do a straight aircraft buy and bring pilots with it you end up with a big furlough.
Its looking at the moment like Delta is planning a fleet reduction not a expansion for the near term to maintain operating margins.

RCD73

Good old Lee wouldn't leave fellow ALPA pilots out in the cold would he ?

TANSTAAFL

Urge is not the same as shall, will, or should. In the end, if it happens, it will be a financial decision of DAL inc. If it would result in DAL pilot furloughs don't expect much "urging"

Sniper

Why would DL want to give WN a competitive advantage in ATL that DL will never have? DL passengers have to transfer b/t terminals to make connections in ATL whether DL has all of Terminal C or 1/2 of C & D.

Andy

So those 717 lease hold zero value? Funny, AirTran's balance sheet in the 2010 10K listed flight equipment at ~$1.4B.
You might want to check with an accountant, but AirTran's 717 aircraft leases are almost certainly counted as assets.

That's a low hurdle that I already discussed only five posts previous to yours, here:
I haven't been able to get a copy of the 4 Party Transition Agreement. No one wants to let me read it. Have you read it? If so, can you email me a copy? Does it say that Southwest MUST integrate seniority lists? I bet 1700 AirTran pilots' futures that it doesn't require Southwest to integrate the two lists.


Again, I'm concerned that people are giving AirTran pilots false hopes on how this is going to play out. There are serious downsides for these guys. Southwest management's threats of fragmentation are real. For any of us outsiders to tell them to ignore that possibility is doing the AirTran pilots a grave injustice.

TANSTAAFL

Perhaps, while AAI held them. Aren't they SWA, non-ALPA assets now, regardless of operating certificate? And if they are returned to Boeing do they not become Boeing assets?

Dunno

I think assuring them they would have a job at DAL if they lease the acft from Boeing is doing exactly that. None of us here really know the final answer to that.

Agreed, but I doubt anyone is foolish enough to base their decisions on internet forum banter.....

Xray678

The final answer is even if Delta wanted the 717s, which is a long shot, there is no way they would structure the deal so they had to take any pilots. Otherwise it would not happen.

Andy

AirTran Airways is wholly owned within the Southwest Airlines subdivision Texas company, LLC Sub, is still an ALPA carrier. The pilots are still ALPA members.
Southwest Airlines, IIRC, is also currently wholly owned within a subdivision of Southwest Airlines - I'd have to double check on that but I doubt it is part of the parent company at the moment.

The aircraft could be subleased, much like subleasing an apartment. While you don't own the apartment, you still collect rent from the person subleasing and pay the apartment complex rent until the end of your lease.

I see a lot of cheerleading and urging AirTran pilots to jump off the cliff.

Yes, and I never thought that a company could sue and win a court decision against a pilot union forcing the pilots to work overtime.
If Southwest offers a lucrative enough deal to Delta to also take the pilots, it could happen.

sailingfun

Andy, First your strange concept of how Delta would end up with 717's would never play out. If SWA gets rid of the aircraft they will return them to Boeing as part of a replacement purchase package.
Aircraft leases are normally carried as liabilities not assets on the books. 1.4 billion in aircraft assets is 20 737's. I doubt its the 717's. The 717's if released to anyone will go at a much lower rate then SWA now pays and it will be through Boeing.
Last no court judgement was won ordering pilots to fly overtime at Delta. Someone is giving you some very bad information. In fact there was never a lawsuit about pilots flying overtime. There was a lawsuit to stop harassment of pilots flying overtime within the contractual rules. No one was ordered to fly any over time. Pure myth on your part.

Andy

Duly noted. ... if I had a dime for every time I've said/heard that only to have the unpossible come true, I'd have at least enough for a keg of beer. And enough left over to buy a bunch of plastic cups.
Never say never.

Thanks, I guess the appeals court ruling (below) that I read a couple of hours ago was a figment of my imagination. As well as this article: Delta Seeks Court Order Forcing Pilot Overtime - ABC News
and this article: CNN.com - Travel - Appeals court rules for Delta in dispute with pilots - January 19, 2001

Here's the appeals ruling: 238 F3d 1300 Delta Air Lines Inc v. Air Line Pilots Association International et al. | OpenJurist