Relevance of 717 to SWA continues to diminish
09-02-2011, 01:34 PM
#61
No longer cares
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Posts: 12,109
Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
bwaaaa haaaa haaaa... really? Yeah, DAL is gonna trade gates for airplanes. Out your source and let's see if he's credible.
09-02-2011, 02:42 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
Clark Griswold: Good night son.
DAL is trying to get MORE gate space in ATL, not less..... Who do you think pushed for years trying to get funding for the new concourse to be built, Air Tran?
09-02-2011, 02:50 PM
#63
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09-02-2011, 03:23 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,637
Dalpa several years ago set out to prove that the company was incorrect in its retreat to Atlanta as it was called. They brought in the EFA team to show that the company could route traffic to other hubs and decrease the dependence on ATL. This would keep more pilots jobs in areas other then ATL. Sadly the EFA team backed the company 100 percent even calling Atlanta the Economic engine that drives Delta airlines. The yield, OandD traffic and the actual geographic location of Atlanta were simply indisputable when the actual books were looked at. We brought them in to prove the company was wrong. It turned out the company was correct. I am not based in Atlanta and would love to see more flying in other places but it is the key to Delta now and in the future.
09-02-2011, 03:35 PM
#65
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Posts: 13,088
Dalpa several years ago set out to prove that the company was incorrect in its retreat to Atlanta as it was called. They brought in the EFA team to show that the company could route traffic to other hubs and decrease the dependence on ATL. This would keep more pilots jobs in areas other then ATL. Sadly the EFA team backed the company 100 percent even calling Atlanta the Economic engine that drives Delta airlines. The yield, OandD traffic and the actual geographic location of Atlanta were simply indisputable when the actual books were looked at. We brought them in to prove the company was wrong. It turned out the company was correct. I am not based in Atlanta and would love to see more flying in other places but it is the key to Delta now and in the future.
09-02-2011, 07:59 PM
#67
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Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Dalpa several years ago set out to prove that the company was incorrect in its retreat to Atlanta as it was called. They brought in the EFA team to show that the company could route traffic to other hubs and decrease the dependence on ATL. This would keep more pilots jobs in areas other then ATL. Sadly the EFA team backed the company 100 percent even calling Atlanta the Economic engine that drives Delta airlines. The yield, OandD traffic and the actual geographic location of Atlanta were simply indisputable when the actual books were looked at. We brought them in to prove the company was wrong. It turned out the company was correct. I am not based in Atlanta and would love to see more flying in other places but it is the key to Delta now and in the future.
I suppose it may not have. What is it about ATL that makes is so valuable? In geographic terms, is it fairly consistent weather? Less congestion then NYC airspace? How much O & D traffic over other hubs can there really be? I just find it crazy how much traffic is moved through ATL. But hey, if it makes $$$ then it's good.
09-02-2011, 08:47 PM
#68
Banned
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Posts: 2,007
We are getting more gate space, it's called the F Concourse. When was the last time you flew out of ATL? It does make sense though to consolidate some gates into one terminal (C or D), rather than spread out, and A319s can do the 737-700 routes easily.
09-02-2011, 08:52 PM
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09-02-2011, 09:30 PM
#70
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Will AirTran's Boeing 717s wind up competing against Southwest Airlines in Atlanta? | Airline Biz Blog | dallasnews.com
ByTerry Maxon/Reporter
[email protected] | Bio
12:13 PM on Wed., Aug. 31, 2011 | Permalink
Airline analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners has taken note of our story about Southwest Airlines' disenchantment with the Boeing 717s it is inheriting from AirTran Airways, and has come up with a new home for the Boeing 717s -- Delta Air Lines.
In a note Tuesday, McAdoo spelled out his conclusions:
"We believe the B717s will eventually fly for Delta. Southwest wants to keep a single fleet type and, as indicated in this article, and will be pulling flights from smaller cities. Delta just ordered 100 larger B737-900 aircraft of its indicated 200 aircraft requirement.
"We believe the 86 B717s at AirTran, currently on lease from Boeing, will be traded in to Boeing for more Southwest B737's. Expect Boeing to then lease or sell the B717s to Delta, perhaps as a second, but yet unannounced, part of the recent B737 order from Delta to Boeing.
"This would be consistent with DAL's plan to limit capital expenditures while opportunistically upgrading the Delta fleet. It would also explain why DAL did not announce orders for smaller aircraft to satisfy part of its 200 aircraft total need.
"This decision by Southwest and our assumed moves by Delta would both seem be in the best interests of these two airlines."
Before McAdoo's note, someone had suggested to me that Delta would like those 717s, even though it doesn't currently operate any of those aircraft. The Boeing 717 is simply an update of the DC-9, and Delta acquired a sizeable fleet of those in its merger with Northwest Airlines.
Northwest Airlines in the 1990s made the decision to modernize the DC-9s it had, and to acquire some more. At one point, it operated 176 of them.
Northwest has since merged with Delta. By Dec. 31, 2010, the Delta fleet had dwindled to 39 DC-9s, with an average age of 34 years, and Delta has indicated they'll all be grounded in the not too distant future.
Southwest Airlines chairman and CEO Gary Kelly called the Boeing 717 a fine airplane, but not one that fits into Southwest's scheme of things. Most of the 88 Boeing 717s in the AirTran fleet are leased from Boeing, and Southwest has included the future of those 717s in its discussions with Boeing about future aircraft purchases.
Under McAdoo's scenario, Boeing might indeed take back the 717s and then re-lease them to Delta. So we may have a situation where the ex-AirTran Boeing 717s will be flying out of Delta's largest hub in Atlanta and competing against AirTran and Southwest.
ByTerry Maxon/Reporter
[email protected] | Bio
12:13 PM on Wed., Aug. 31, 2011 | Permalink
Airline analyst Bob McAdoo of Avondale Partners has taken note of our story about Southwest Airlines' disenchantment with the Boeing 717s it is inheriting from AirTran Airways, and has come up with a new home for the Boeing 717s -- Delta Air Lines.
In a note Tuesday, McAdoo spelled out his conclusions:
"We believe the B717s will eventually fly for Delta. Southwest wants to keep a single fleet type and, as indicated in this article, and will be pulling flights from smaller cities. Delta just ordered 100 larger B737-900 aircraft of its indicated 200 aircraft requirement.
"We believe the 86 B717s at AirTran, currently on lease from Boeing, will be traded in to Boeing for more Southwest B737's. Expect Boeing to then lease or sell the B717s to Delta, perhaps as a second, but yet unannounced, part of the recent B737 order from Delta to Boeing.
"This would be consistent with DAL's plan to limit capital expenditures while opportunistically upgrading the Delta fleet. It would also explain why DAL did not announce orders for smaller aircraft to satisfy part of its 200 aircraft total need.
"This decision by Southwest and our assumed moves by Delta would both seem be in the best interests of these two airlines."
Before McAdoo's note, someone had suggested to me that Delta would like those 717s, even though it doesn't currently operate any of those aircraft. The Boeing 717 is simply an update of the DC-9, and Delta acquired a sizeable fleet of those in its merger with Northwest Airlines.
Northwest Airlines in the 1990s made the decision to modernize the DC-9s it had, and to acquire some more. At one point, it operated 176 of them.
Northwest has since merged with Delta. By Dec. 31, 2010, the Delta fleet had dwindled to 39 DC-9s, with an average age of 34 years, and Delta has indicated they'll all be grounded in the not too distant future.
Southwest Airlines chairman and CEO Gary Kelly called the Boeing 717 a fine airplane, but not one that fits into Southwest's scheme of things. Most of the 88 Boeing 717s in the AirTran fleet are leased from Boeing, and Southwest has included the future of those 717s in its discussions with Boeing about future aircraft purchases.
Under McAdoo's scenario, Boeing might indeed take back the 717s and then re-lease them to Delta. So we may have a situation where the ex-AirTran Boeing 717s will be flying out of Delta's largest hub in Atlanta and competing against AirTran and Southwest.
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