Relevance of 717 to SWA continues to diminish
09-01-2011, 08:43 PM
#52
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 99
Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
09-02-2011, 03:32 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,909
Geek is the new cool. Get with the times, man.
Nu
09-02-2011, 05:00 AM
#54
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,046
09-02-2011, 07:12 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
09-02-2011, 07:20 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 264
Looks like the 717 may is being used as a form of trade with Delta for a gate SWAP in ATL. Sources say that WN first 4 gates will be at the D gates starting in Feb 2012 and now WNand Delta are in talks about trading All the FL C gates for all of Delta D gates.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
Along with this gate trade WN will trade 30 717 for 10 737-700 and 3 737-800 from Delta next year.Along with this WN will be adding a mix of 80 new and used 737-700 and 800 from a Boeing leasing company from June 2012 until Jan 2013.
During this time frame 6 717 will be moved from the fleet at a time and replaced with New and used 737-700 and 800. Delta will add the 717 to replace the 29 DC 9 50 and the 13 737 in the swap plus add additional aircraft.
When all is said and done WN will have off loaded all of the 717. Retired all the 737-500 and a few 737-300. The cost saving from not having redo any 717 into the WN fleet and the retirement off all the 737-500 and some older 300 will end up saving WN millions a year.
And at ATL WN will end up with all the D gates with 30 gates total that will be able to handle a 737-800 The only down side is 1# no 717 in ever in the WN fleet.
09-02-2011, 11:27 AM
#60
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
The one thing about 717s at DAL and SWA is for SWA it's a portion of a large fleet and radically different in the grand scheme of the operation. It's not that the economies of scale can't work, they can, but it changes so much without adding something that makes that worthwhile.
For DAL, if you read other websites... thinking airliners.net which is kind of trite to read... you see all the naysayers against the 717 who see aircraft orders as a one dimensional foot race with full flights from point A to point B and where nothing but fuel burn matters.
DAL is not in a foot race, they're running a global airline.
An airline that needs to replace things all while managing a very large debt. They need market share and you can buy more aircraft for the same amount of money than any other option available not to mention the ability to say upgauge or down grade aircraft to right size markets. Let's face it, the MD90 is cheap and a great way to replace a 9... until you can't fill it. At some point block hour costs trump CASM, and the game is about margins so there needs to be a plane smaller than the 88s but cheaper than 319s.
They also need things that work in the real world and not on a spreadsheet. The 717 is cheap, new enough and a known quantity. The C-Series is expensive, it doesn't exist yet and you have no idea what it will be. DAL opted for existing technology in the 739, not the RE or at least not until it's proven itself and the order book flips.
So to me, there are two old airlines with lots of needs and wants who will probably find a mutually beneficial way to deal with their fleet sizes and each come away feeling it's a good deal or at best each thinking "sucker!"
Thats my two cents. Now give them back, I'm an airline pilot. I don't readily part with money.
For DAL, if you read other websites... thinking airliners.net which is kind of trite to read... you see all the naysayers against the 717 who see aircraft orders as a one dimensional foot race with full flights from point A to point B and where nothing but fuel burn matters.
DAL is not in a foot race, they're running a global airline.
An airline that needs to replace things all while managing a very large debt. They need market share and you can buy more aircraft for the same amount of money than any other option available not to mention the ability to say upgauge or down grade aircraft to right size markets. Let's face it, the MD90 is cheap and a great way to replace a 9... until you can't fill it. At some point block hour costs trump CASM, and the game is about margins so there needs to be a plane smaller than the 88s but cheaper than 319s.
They also need things that work in the real world and not on a spreadsheet. The 717 is cheap, new enough and a known quantity. The C-Series is expensive, it doesn't exist yet and you have no idea what it will be. DAL opted for existing technology in the 739, not the RE or at least not until it's proven itself and the order book flips.
So to me, there are two old airlines with lots of needs and wants who will probably find a mutually beneficial way to deal with their fleet sizes and each come away feeling it's a good deal or at best each thinking "sucker!"
Thats my two cents. Now give them back, I'm an airline pilot. I don't readily part with money.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 09-02-2011 at 11:41 AM.
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