Relevance of 717 to SWA continues to diminish
09-07-2011, 01:34 PM
#231
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
ACL,
Again, I will ask how in the blue blazes did anyone think you are in a mindset to be a moderator? You and 80cups related to the APC founders? Don't get me wrong, I have had some discussions over the years with a few of the moderators on APC and they are good guys. I wouldn't want the job, so thanks for volunteering. Every once in a while, you and 80.......whatever throw a happy face in to make it seem like you are nuetral, but the bias (regardless of the TOS) is pretty obvious. JMHO!
Again, I will ask how in the blue blazes did anyone think you are in a mindset to be a moderator? You and 80cups related to the APC founders? Don't get me wrong, I have had some discussions over the years with a few of the moderators on APC and they are good guys. I wouldn't want the job, so thanks for volunteering. Every once in a while, you and 80.......whatever throw a happy face in to make it seem like you are nuetral, but the bias (regardless of the TOS) is pretty obvious. JMHO!
He's here mostly to make sure the pictures we post are aviation related and not just gratuitous nudity.
Look at the size of the watch on that pilot.!! Southwest? Nah. Can't be. Its an Airbus.
09-07-2011, 02:36 PM
#232
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Fwiw I'd never trust a list of whose the greatest president written when the present is still alive. Time will always tell you who was the best and even then political leanings will manifest themselves but at least not as much.
I think 100 years at a minimum.
I think 100 years at a minimum.
09-07-2011, 02:37 PM
#233
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Speechless. Is that from the Qantas sexcapade?
09-07-2011, 03:06 PM
#234
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
What was I thinking? Is that you LuvJockey? Please say it is so I have something to look forward to. Your watch is sooooooo big!
The (calmer) Oscar
09-07-2011, 03:10 PM
#235
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 754
That's from the Air Comet Flight Attendants who posed nude to draw attention to their contract plight with management.
Air Comet Attendants' NUDE Calendar: Spanish Airline Workers Strip In Protest Over Benefits (PHOTOS, NSFW)
Air Comet Attendants' NUDE Calendar: Spanish Airline Workers Strip In Protest Over Benefits (PHOTOS, NSFW)
09-07-2011, 03:42 PM
#236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Oscar;
We all pay dues, but paying at your end game carrier is the issue. Do you not see that? I paid flying for the regionals for ten years, and before that, flying ad hoc work and before that, throwing bags et al. Point is I did not pay to get my final gig.
I do not fell entitled to anything, and from those that know me, know I am not afraid of hard work. In fact I encourage it. One thing that I do not do is profit at my fellow pilots expense. Politics aside, I believe that what made this industry strong in that past, is exactly what is needed today. It is largely missing and that is why we are where we are. Corporate America has been smart and knew exactly what it took.
Quick upgrades, stock options, profit sharing all work great when, in our industry upgrade times are short, and companies are profitable. I have no issue with any of those programs. Wrt to the DB v DC argument. They were solvent until there were airlines like yours that were willing to agree to go with out the DB plan. You are right, they are gone, but it was not deregulation that put the death nail in that. It was pilots willing to do the work without it.
I know SWA has 20K apps and all of them are willing to pay for the type. People see the money, and are willing to pay the price of admission. That is on top of 1000-1300 hrs of PIC 121 time. I mean really? What hasn't SWAPA said no more? The reality is it really reduces their costs, and as a result, is one less thing that they pay for and you do. I admit I applied there, but I also turned them down. I saw stagnation coming and frankly did not want to pay for a type. I love the culture, but really would like to see you guys really gain from the fruits of your labor.
Like I said it was easy a few years ago to ride the coat tails of the legacy contracts, but now that all of those have been gutted, you will find it more and more difficult to get raises that you would have if SWA and its pilots would have allowed the game to continue. I do agree it is over, but we all lose because of it. Many of your FO's will realize that as upgrade times keep getting longer and longer.
As for the mod stuff, there is no where that states I need to be impartial in my opinion. As you can tell I am quite opinionated on a few issues. In the end, I just want the SWAPA pilots to realize that what we see as a industry norm, wrt to pilot compensation is them, and as Herb told your pilots 20+ years ago, the goal was to always be just below that of the Legacies. The success went a little too far, and turned our profession upside down.
We all pay dues, but paying at your end game carrier is the issue. Do you not see that? I paid flying for the regionals for ten years, and before that, flying ad hoc work and before that, throwing bags et al. Point is I did not pay to get my final gig.
I do not fell entitled to anything, and from those that know me, know I am not afraid of hard work. In fact I encourage it. One thing that I do not do is profit at my fellow pilots expense. Politics aside, I believe that what made this industry strong in that past, is exactly what is needed today. It is largely missing and that is why we are where we are. Corporate America has been smart and knew exactly what it took.
Quick upgrades, stock options, profit sharing all work great when, in our industry upgrade times are short, and companies are profitable. I have no issue with any of those programs. Wrt to the DB v DC argument. They were solvent until there were airlines like yours that were willing to agree to go with out the DB plan. You are right, they are gone, but it was not deregulation that put the death nail in that. It was pilots willing to do the work without it.
I know SWA has 20K apps and all of them are willing to pay for the type. People see the money, and are willing to pay the price of admission. That is on top of 1000-1300 hrs of PIC 121 time. I mean really? What hasn't SWAPA said no more? The reality is it really reduces their costs, and as a result, is one less thing that they pay for and you do. I admit I applied there, but I also turned them down. I saw stagnation coming and frankly did not want to pay for a type. I love the culture, but really would like to see you guys really gain from the fruits of your labor.
Like I said it was easy a few years ago to ride the coat tails of the legacy contracts, but now that all of those have been gutted, you will find it more and more difficult to get raises that you would have if SWA and its pilots would have allowed the game to continue. I do agree it is over, but we all lose because of it. Many of your FO's will realize that as upgrade times keep getting longer and longer.
As for the mod stuff, there is no where that states I need to be impartial in my opinion. As you can tell I am quite opinionated on a few issues. In the end, I just want the SWAPA pilots to realize that what we see as a industry norm, wrt to pilot compensation is them, and as Herb told your pilots 20+ years ago, the goal was to always be just below that of the Legacies. The success went a little too far, and turned our profession upside down.
You have no idea what my end game (see bold in your last remarks above) is. It is called Paradise and it matters not what you or I find important. So that I don't get in trouble with the "mods" (oh wait that is you) I will just say that money and what I can get/deserve have never been that important. Otherwise just like most of my contemporaries in the Marines I would have wound up at DAL et al and probably have a chip on my shoulder. I know most don't have said chip implant, but you my friend well...........it must be umcomfortable where it is resting.
As I have always said... the type rating is nothing more than a screening device assisting our personnel department to decide who to hire. Thanks for making that decision and saving them the trouble. Case in point.....fellow Marine aviator discussing the airlines hiring environment in 1988 with me stated "Southwest is a great company but I would NEVER pay for my type rating," After telling him that I was single and had the money saved up already he still wasn't buying it. Two years later after he was furloughed from USair and then furloughed in training (June 1991) from America West he than was turned down by United. Well........he then went out and got a type rating only to be turned down by SWA. Poor investment you say. More like he waited almost four years after separating from the Marines to get his type and apply to SWA. Quite obvious he didn't want to really be here. He only applied (w/type) because we were his last chance. If he had applied immediately after leaving the Marines I can (almost) guarantee he would have been hired here (5-0 record at that time). So much for NEVER paying for his type rating. Even I couldn't overcome his decision making in the previous years.
I agree that SWA is becoming more and more like the legacies (again see bold above). We need to make sure the pie is distributed fairly. That pie is only so big, but you seem to want to take more of it than you are entitled to.
In the mean time I am certainly glad I did my part to serve up some pie to my fellow rampers, ops agents, and VP's. You can say I took it directly from you and transfered those assets to them if you like. I will not lose sleep or cry for those who have not earned it.
The Oscar
09-07-2011, 03:48 PM
#237
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Oscar-
If you can find in the TOS where a mod has to be completely unbiased, let me know. I will be as unbiased as possible in regards to modding threads that are in violation (or if I'm involved in the "action" in the thread I will let another mod take care of it if it is borderline). Just because I am a mod doesn't mean I can't express my opinion (or FACTS as per some posters around here) on something.
Relax and enjoy your paid for type rating in that junky plane that I have one trip left on.
I'm going to be sitting in the right seat of that Airbus with big watch lady posted earlier.
Well, kind of... I'm going to have to turn in my man card for this, but that's an A330 and I'm going to the 320. Same difference?
If you can find in the TOS where a mod has to be completely unbiased, let me know. I will be as unbiased as possible in regards to modding threads that are in violation (or if I'm involved in the "action" in the thread I will let another mod take care of it if it is borderline). Just because I am a mod doesn't mean I can't express my opinion (or FACTS as per some posters around here) on something.
Relax and enjoy your paid for type rating in that junky plane that I have one trip left on.
I'm going to be sitting in the right seat of that Airbus with big watch lady posted earlier.Well, kind of... I'm going to have to turn in my man card for this, but that's an A330 and I'm going to the 320. Same difference?
09-07-2011, 04:24 PM
#238
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Oscar-
If you can find in the TOS where a mod has to be completely unbiased, let me know. I will be as unbiased as possible in regards to modding threads that are in violation (or if I'm involved in the "action" in the thread I will let another mod take care of it if it is borderline). Just because I am a mod doesn't mean I can't express my opinion (or FACTS as per some posters around here) on something.
Relax and enjoy your paid for type rating in that junky plane that I have one trip left on. I'm going to be sitting in the right seat of that Airbus with big watch lady posted earlier.
Well, kind of... I'm going to have to turn in my man card for this, but that's an A330 and I'm going to the 320. Same difference?
If you can find in the TOS where a mod has to be completely unbiased, let me know. I will be as unbiased as possible in regards to modding threads that are in violation (or if I'm involved in the "action" in the thread I will let another mod take care of it if it is borderline). Just because I am a mod doesn't mean I can't express my opinion (or FACTS as per some posters around here) on something.
Relax and enjoy your paid for type rating in that junky plane that I have one trip left on.
I'm going to be sitting in the right seat of that Airbus with big watch lady posted earlier.Well, kind of... I'm going to have to turn in my man card for this, but that's an A330 and I'm going to the 320. Same difference?
Have a nice trip!
09-07-2011, 04:25 PM
#239
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
09-07-2011, 04:33 PM
#240
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
The company is reeeeally interested in making money! They also don't mind sharing it with you. If you honestly believe that SWA will let SWAPA broker a $3 billion deal you are truly delusional. Did the company in fact eventually share the proposal with SWAPA, of course they did, just as they did with ALPA. If you are insinuating SWAPA wrote it or was a major architect of the plan you are incorrect. If you also truly believe that the union I pay my dues to should be advocating that a deal put on the table is simply too good for us and not good enough for them, then you really don't understand union representation.
No, what I guess I don't understand is your willingness to let the company so easily destroy the culture you are all so proud of.
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