moosedawg

ACL, it's in managements best interest to merge the two pilot groups as quickly as possible so they can start realizing the synergies of the acquisition.

Your second paragraph really shows a lack of understanding of the basic SWA business model with regards to employees. From the beginning this Company has built a system based on efficiency and greed, and they hire employees based on specific profiles. In the big scheme of things it's brilliant and works. They build schedules for all employee groups that include opportunities to make more money if you want to. For the average worker here, it is pretty nice to know that if you want to make more money at SWA, all you have to do is volunteer to work more. It has been a highly lucrative system for many employees at all different levels. Traditionally, they hire from within and promote from within and have developed a culture based on loyalty to the Company. They go out of their way to make all employee groups understand that our long term well being is at all times tied to the fact that the Company must be successful and make money. Our business model is constantly evolving based on this fact. If you understand this, then you can understand why as a group, we are more concerned with helping our Company be strong and survive, vs worrying about whether we are advancing the conditions for other pilot groups as a "whole".

acl65pilot

Wrt to the higlighted part, I get why you are doing it, I am just telling you that in the long run it results in less for you. By having the success that the LUV model has had over the last decade, those carriers that SWA wanted to be "just behind" in terms of costs, are now below them. It makes this type of plan end on flat feet the farther out you take it. I like that the company wants to help you so you help them, it is something most corporations are missing, but what I believe that SWAPA has failed to see is that their methodology for doing their pilots' bidding will now make it harder for the legacies to up the ante, and as a result harder for you to realize the gains you want.

The crux of the issue is moderation of all things. The pilots of SWA went all in, and as a result of doing what was in the short term best for you guys, will ultimately result in making gains for you that much harder.

It is what it is, airline travel has become something a step above greyhound. Doing what is in the best interest of a very small part of the piloting profession works for that part for a period of time, but as we will see going forward, it will make gains for all pilots difficult at best. SWA and its pilots are now a target to beat, and that is the last place anyone from your organization wants to be. What is as important is, the business traveler has also caught on.

You are correct that LUV needed to change its business model and evolve. Buying AAI was proof enough. SWA management has always been very kind to its pilots because its pilots cared little for how it effected them and their profession in the long term. I suspect as you continue to grow, their willingness to give SWAPA and its pilots what they want will decrease exponentially. Every airline has grappled with trying to keep the mom and pop metaility, DAL has, and the reality is as you grow the best you can do is be a number and a cost. That is why it is important to maintain a status quo within our profession.

If pilots are honest with themselves, SWAPA's rates would still be less than desirable in the CH11 era did not happen. It really is a storm that the Low Cost Carriers created.

j3beech18

wasn't sure where to ask this. looks like i may be a relatively senior southwest fo next year (about 7 years), and was wondering what i could expect to make per year if i work from 13 to 16 days a month. i know what the trip pay is , but unsure of how the premium pay works. heard you could drop the whole month and pick up premium pay trips? is that risky or common? trying to figure out if i have to sell the house or go shopping for a caddy. please explain, my future fellow southwest fos. thanks

gloopy

Because the award included a 7 year fence for the Airbus because they are vastly different types than the 50-100 seaters the RAH "air group" has. I doubt the SW/AT arbitration would include anywhere near that level of a fence.

Tankerhead

One million dollars.

Many would say your cart is getting in front of your ox. A lot of those boys won't be happy until we're drawing unemployment.

j3beech18

maybe so. just trying to stay positive.

shoelu

Over the years many different pilot groups have made many different decisions about what is their long term best interest. The majority of legacy carriers sold their soul for releasing scope. In turn they were rewarded with enhanced pay and benefits but those actions eroded the pilot profession greatly. SWAPA went another direction they clutched on to scope very hard and spent a great deal of negotiating capital to keep it. As a result they were not rewarded with industry leading pay rates. But, guess what, we still own the best scope language in the business and that alone was the catalyst for consistent 10% growth rates. We paid dearly for scope a long time ago and have been playing catch up in the area of pay rates for a long time. Now we have industry leading pay and we still have scope. You can make all the arguments you want that lower SWA pay rates lowered the bar for the industry as a whole, but you also must own up to what your own actions have created. The constant whipsaw and poverty wages for regional carriers would never have come about if you would have defended your scope as valiantly as we did. What in the long term did more harm to the industry is a call that each individual has to make for themselves because it is completely subjective. I know that SWAPA's defensive actions in the scope arena have greatly enhanced my position, and I owe a huge debt of gratitude to those who came before me. Your predecessors (I say predecessors because I don't know how long you have been there) look extremely short sided in my opinion, but that again is only my opinion. You folks are approaching section six and I keep hearing that you will negotiate huge gains in the areas of scope and compensation. I certainly wish you the best on that front but I am somewhat skeptical in believing you have the needed bargaining capital to pull off the double play. I will vehemently defend our actions on this front. I still have trouble with your argument that we were short sighted and only did what was in the best interest of a small part of the piloting profession as you contend.

tsquare

How convenient for SWAPA.

Again, you're right. DAL guys have no dog in the fight, but we still have the right no.. obligation... to share our experiences, and hopefully you will learn from our mistakes. But I guess SWA is an infallible force to be reckoned with, and you will go blindly down the road the company paves for you. And like you said, that's fine, it's your choice. Human nature being what it is though, you take seniority from the ATN guys in the amounts that has been proposed, and I can tell you from 20 years of watching the results of mergers, that that is the one thing that is NEVER forgotten. You are watching your beloved culture getting destroyed before your eyes, and all you can say is that your union has nothing to do with it. Big... fat... fail. Good luck. You are rapidly becoming just another airline.

shoelu

What exactly do you propose we should be doing differently?

Do we have any way to compel management not to make offers toward a negotiated settlement? The answer is no we do not.

Should SWAPA be negotiating for ALPA? Is that what you think we should be doing?

The only leverage we have in this process right now is a no or yes vote on the deal that gets brokered.

I guess I just don't understand what exactly you think SWAPA should be doing at this point. Should we be advocating for ALPA? You want to talk about a sure fire way to get yourself in a very quick DFR suit, that will surely do it.

Please enlighten me to what methods you would employ if Delta ALPA was in the exact same situation right now. Please inform me what the right play is on our part. I truly want to know what legal options do you think are on the table for us at this point.

The company has a very vested interest in a negotiated and quick settlement. I just don't get what you think SWAPA could say or do at this point that will change that prospect.

newKnow

Maybe you should tell the company that for their own good and yours (and also, because they are doing such a poor job), they should stay out of it and you will make your own proposals for a seniority list.