1Seat 1Engine

Everyone who wants to argue M-B needs to look no further than Republic/Frontier. Theirs is a binding list. Yet Frontier is still on it's own island.

Bucking Bar

The money was for our cooperation in several areas:

• Scope alignment and rationalization
• Agreement to a process for SLI

No one knew what their seniority would be, we just knew the process that would be followed. Frankly, if some of us had known the result we would have quit, or fought the SLI. Once the money was spent, then we were stuck doing what we agreed to. Overall, it was a smart move by management and our union. It got the process done and got a good bit of money in our pockets.

SWA's situation is different. First, you guys rightfully don't want to open up your section 1. Second, you are already paid well enough that there is not any great incentive for you to agree to a process.

Delta and NWA were a better "fit" than SWA / AAI. Those who track the changes can see the two companies starting to align their networks in a complementary way as long as a decade ago. That prevented some of the pain of network rationalization which will mostly effect the AAI guys negatively.

Both sides want status quo, but with mergers managements' gain is typically the pilots' loss. Just don't blame each other. Management makes these decisions, not pilots.

One "win" that has helped the Delta pilots, have been a series of early retirement incentives. With these the pain of consolidation came off the top, while everyone below benefited, or at least did not lose much.

Smokey23

ACL, the motivation is most likely to avoid another US Airways east/west. While it is sure nice to hope for the ideal of both unions sitting down and hammering out a deal, you, me, and most certainly Gary Kelly know that just doesn't happen anymore. Every SLI in the last decade or so has gone to an arbitrator, because the two groups inevitably reach an impasse and no one from either side wants to take ownership of the results (including the airline mgmt). It worked okay for you guys, being the closest the industry has ever seen to a true "merger of equals" in terms of pilot demographics, routes, fleet mix, etc. Bully for you. But SWA-ATN is shaping up more along the lines of US Airways (older airline with similar equipment paired with a much younger airline). I believe GK knows he will have a full-blown civil war on his hands that could very well take down the airline if he lets this go to an arbitrator (which would more than likely produce an 11-yr rSWA FO pulling gear for a 6-yr fATN CA). What's a real leader to do? Shrug his shoulders, wash his hands of the whole issue and hope for the best (hello, Doug Parker), or take an active role in managing the future of his company? Since it is increasingly apparent GK has opted for the latter route, is it any wonder where his loyalties lie? The >6000 pilots he already knows and have helped him make the airline what it is today, or the 1700 new guys and their union that have been looking more and more ungrateful by the day? The message is becoming increasingly clear from SWA to ATN-ALPA: straighten up and get with the team guys, or you may need to find another job.

I know it is a far cry from the typical ALPA-ALPA merger dance, but since this airline has never moved to the beat of the industry drum in the past, I wouldn't expect this SLI resolution to be any different.

shoelu

We haven't gotten any money out of the deal yet because we have yet to have management ask us for anything. There has been no relaxation of scope on any level because none has been asked for yet. The big money will come into play when this thing goes past the two year mark allowed for in our CBA. When we reach two years from DCC and we still do not have one airline operating as such that is when the checkbook will come out. Is it starting to now sink in why GK is so eager to reach a deal outside of arbitration yet? SWAPA will either seek a cease and desist order or be bought off not to do so.

newKnow

This whole explanation seems to make sense, except when you apply it to what seems to be going on.

If SWAPA and GK are so worried about an 11 year SWA pulling gear for a 6 year AT Captain why don't you just argue for and present a seniority list based on date of hire?

Oh wait! Because there are a large number of pilots who left AT and came to SWA who feel like they would be screwed.

Ok. To satisfy those guys, you would have to come up with some kind of ratioed list.

Oh wait! That might produce an 11 year SWA FO that has to pull gear for a 6 year AT Captain..

Ok. To fix that, you should go with a DOH list.

But, wait! What about the ex Air Tran pilots......?

You guys should understand why we find this so entertaining.

tsquare

Take a poll then. I'll betcha that more (non-SWA from all airlines) pilots agree with my definition than yours... And I don't think that management's proposal represented a "small" group of ATN pilots.

tsquare

WOW!!! really?????? This is getting better and better....


But then again, you're absolutely right. With the proposal that gave SWAPA plausible deniability, you were handed a screw job that you didn't even have to say you were part of, that totally benefited the SWAPA pilots, and you didn't have to lift a finger other than to vote a resounding yes! Management didn't HAVE to ask you for anything, they handed it to you on a plate. But I'm sure that SWAPA's proposal would have been infinitely more fair wouldn't it?

tsquare

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Andy

That's cool. You've chosen to water down the word so much in reference to merging seniority lists that it stops meaning anything. It's like comparing every airline CEO to carl icahn.
And you had the nerve to question my knowledge of airline history? UFB.

shoelu

Thank you for agreeing with me. I don't need plausible deniability because my union has yet to make anyone an offer. There is no such thing as fair in negotiations. The current entity making offers controls the purse strings. If it pains you that SWA is making offers to AT then so be it. What it all really boils down to will a deal be forthcoming that both unions get a chance to vote on. The first AIP was not allowed to go to a vote because the AT MEC decided they did not want to send it out for a ratification vote. That is completely fine and certainly their perogotive. If big brother Delta wants to ask AT if they can cast their votes for them, that is a deal you will have to work out with AT. As it stands right now the Delta boys don't have a vote in this matter. If you honestly expect SWAPA to step in and say: "This deal is simply to good for us and we would like you to please make this all a little more painful for us." well I can tell you honestly I don't expect that to happen. And for the record, a total of 27 pilots on both sides of the aisle have currently gotten a vote on anything.