Andy

Thanks. I realize that the probability of some of what I write is currently small percentagewise. However, the airlines have Plan B, C, and D sitting on the shelf. Depending on how things proceed, the probability of those scenarios rise or fall.

My dad was a lawyer for CAB and then ATA. I remember going on business vacations and playing with the children of high level execs at American, United, Continental, TWA, Eastern, Pan Am, and Northwest. The fathers would have their meetings and we'd play on the beaches in Barbados or the Canary Islands.
For the most part, the airlines work together. You just don't want to be the wounded animal ... I remember how Crandall took down Braniff by holding onto the tickets from Braniff passengers that were rebooked on American and then dropping ~a year's worth of them at one time. Braniff had a cash flow problem for quite a while; Crandall's action pushed Braniff over the edge. Of course that was likely payback for Braniff's CEO, Howard Putnam, tape recording a phone conversation with Crandall where Crandall discussed both carriers raising ticket prices.
This can be a very nasty business. If you or I can think of any of these scenarios, it's likely that an airline lawyer has already done a rough outline on executing such a plan.

My apologies. I realize that what I have written recently can be offensive to AirTran pilots. It's not intended that way; it's more to discuss the possible ways that this can play out. What happens to you guys may or may not be fair. Unfortunately, the airline business, much like life, is not fair.
I remember well how some would openly discuss the pieces of United that they wanted to have their airline acquire back in 2003. It wasn't a pleasant time for me to read airline pilot boards.
This too shall pass.

Bucking Bar

Why yes, it does. It can even find another one of its own, unlike the lost prototype iPhone. Thus avoiding the need to ransack a private citizen's home under the force of the "authorities."

Ferd149

...................................

Out of the mud Ferd, stay out of the mud

gloopy

But if he "had nothing to hide" he should have no problem waiving his rights. That is, unless the proper authorities determine/interpret that those rights, which are mere courtesies granted by government in the first place, can be circumvented.

Ah, the delusional grandeur of functional tyrrany laced with intellectual sophistry.

In any case, Andy's little theory isn't insulting to AT pilots, its a dig at DL pilots. Because in his theory, AT pilots will have a home either way, but he thinks it will be in a manner that results in 1000 DL pilots being furloughed so that 1000 AT pilots can slide on over to DL with a metal neutral aircraft/delivery swap so the almighty SW can run 1000 proper, culturally vetted and worthy pilots through new hire training at least being able to partially cleanse the stain of the unworthy from their ranks. OK on second thought it is a bit insulting to the AT pilots as well. Gotta give him credit for drinking the SW kool aid when he's not even there though.

The fulcrum of his theory is that AT pilots lack the scope and merger language to force the issue if SW does the "seperate certificate trick" with a direct assett transfer in an outright 100% buyout, but if an ALPA carrier ends up with some of the current AT metal one day, ALPA merger policy will dictate that in all cases that is defined as a fragmentation and they can slide on over with them in all cases. And besided, GK will wheel and deal to cleanse 1000 unworthy AT pilots from his beloved airline and DL management will agree because they will do anything to get the 717's.

newKnow

Maybe someone can help me out. Anyone:


Didn't all four parties,

1.) SWA Management,
2.) SWAPA,
3.) AT pilots, &
4.) AT ex-management(??).),

agree that after a certain date or trigger agree to go to binding arbitration to merge the seniority lists, if no negotiated settlement was reached?

If so, why is it that some believe that SWA will sell off parts of Air Tran?

Andy

Perhaps the Delta pilots should not encourage their AirTran brothers to commit seppuku in public? Just a thought.

My original thoughts were that Southwest could sell all of the 717s to Air Wisonsin, American Eagle, Atlantic Southeast, Colgan, Compass or any other regional ALPA carrier whose contracts allowed it. But Delta appears to have a desire to get the 717s.

Because all airline management is ruthless and evil. Southwest management is no different; they just play the folksy routine. Herb has it down to a science.

80ktsClamp

Who is asking them to commit seppuku in public? It's more to not fall for a ridiculous seniority grab. AT pilots standing up for themselves is not seppuku.

Your original thought of them selling the 717s to a regional carrier who's contracts allowed it show a fundamental misunderstanding of what is allowed. Republic is the only "regional" that operates large type aircraft, but they already parked all the 717s they could have had. Any of those carriers you listed could get the aircraft, sure... but they wouldn't have any one to fly them for.

Delta "may" have a desire to get the 717s, but they would be acquired after the return of them to Boeing as Southwest replaces them 1:1 with new 737s. Southwest and SWAPA already have signed the process agreement. The ball is rolling.


Agreed on your last statement.

Andy

Unfortunately, many are assuming that an integrated seniority list MUST occur. While the odds may be small, there are ways around merging the seniority lists and there are ways to spin down Texas Sub, LLC without those assets being 'transferred' to Southwest.
As an example, Goldman Sachs could use a shell corporation - let's call it ScrewUAirAssets, LLC. ScrewUAirAssets could buy most/all of AirTran's assets from Texas Sub, LLC. Upon completion of that transaction, ScrewUAirAssets could turn around and lease any assets back to Southwest that they want. All the way down to lav pumpers. All of a sudden, a bunch of former AirTran/Texas Sub, LLC employees are out of a job.

I realize that a lot of people want to dismiss this as pure fantasy. But then answer me this - why did Southwest announce new service to ATL from LAS and PHX today? Looks like another not-so-subtle shot across the bow. Southwest Airlines Expands Atlanta Service With Two New Nonstop Destinations -- DALLAS, Sept. 5, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

If, for some reason, Southwest doesn't integrate the AirTran employees, you can simply shrug your shoulders and say, 'Who would have ever thought that would have happened' and go back to your airline job.

tsquare

Scare tactics. Nothing more. SWA management is apparently negotiating on behalf of SWAPA. The field is not level, but payback's a biyatch. This will go much much deeper and have bigger ramifications if it goes down badly. JMHO

tsquare

Not if you have the slightest knowledge of the Ichans and Lorenzos of this industry and what they did.... or if you are just ignorant and not paying attention...