AT and SWA SLI: How to make it work.
08-25-2011, 03:12 PM
#121
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 17
Someone would be lying if they said it isn't. Whatever airline you are at, if they said you had to take a 50% pay cut you'd holler! Fuss, to anyone that would listen I am sure! I would too.
Money is but one thing we are all interested in. Might not be the most important but, it pays the bills and puts gas in the car.
So if you got your seniority, but no Luv salary, that would make you happy?
Money is but one thing we are all interested in. Might not be the most important but, it pays the bills and puts gas in the car.
So if you got your seniority, but no Luv salary, that would make you happy?
08-25-2011, 03:36 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Excerpt of Section 45:
PART 4 – CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
A. INTERPRETATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
Issues as to interpretation of Carrier Fragmentation Policy shall be determined by the Executive Council.
B. APPLICATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
Fragmentation policy shall apply if an acquiring ALPA carrier declares an intent to acquire assets of another ALPA carrier, and the acquiring carrier agrees to employ any of the other carrier’s pilots in conjunction with the assets it acquires and to integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process. In the event a carrier does not intend to employ and integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process, the President shall urge the acquiring carrier to do so.
C. IDENTIFICATION OF PILOTS TO BE TRANSFERRED
Provided that Part 4B above is satisfied, absent a definitive determination by the carriers concerned of how many and which pilots will transfer, questions of number and identity, of the pilots to be involved in said move shall be determined by the merger representatives using negotiation, mediation, and arbitration if necessary, in accordance with the procedures in Part 3 above, or modifications thereof approved by the Executive Council, subject to negotiation and agreement with management.
So you'd need to shop the 717s to another ALPO carrier. Perhaps Air Wisconsin, Atlantic Southeast, Colgan, Comair, CommutAir, Compass, ExpressJet, Mesa Air Group, Mesaba, Piedmont, Pinnacle, or Trans States.
Agree to give the acquiring carrier a juicy feed contract to operate the 717s until the leases expire.
That would solve 2/3s of your pilot integration issues right there since 2/3s of AirTran's pilots would be going to the new ALPO carrier with the metal.
I bet the 717 pilots could be guaranteed their choice of relative seniority or date of hire as part of the deal. They might have to take a pay cut though but money's not an issue; it's all about seniority.
08-25-2011, 04:20 PM
#124
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 20
I think this idea is complete BS. BTW, it seems very familiar. Haven't Lear70 and RM suggested the same to their pilots recently?
08-25-2011, 04:35 PM
#125
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
08-25-2011, 05:43 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
How do you want the list to be merged?
Anyone from SWA can jump in too, if they want.....
Air Tran guys, how do yoiu want to see the lists merged?
08-25-2011, 06:05 PM
#127
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: 737 ca
Posts: 6
not that it matters now, but how about date of hire and no capt seat protections. AT pilots happy because of date of hire and senior SW fos happy because they can upgrade realllllll fast. i'm a junior capt at at and i would be happy with this. seems most fair in my little world. i dont mind loosing my seat (even though ive had it for 6 years), if it means i would be on an even playing field with everyone else as far as seniority goes.
08-25-2011, 06:48 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 270
I stand b what I said. You guys don't know what you want and you should be a little worried about it because it shows that you are unprepared, 8+ months into it.
At this point of every other merger I have seen, the "sides" have figured out what it best for their individual group overall. For instance, NWA wanted DOH, DAL wanted ratio's. US Airways wanted DOH, America West wanted ratios.
What's funny is I get the feeling that, while individual AT pilots have figured out which one is best for them and prefer that, the Air Tran pilot group as a whole would take either one, just as long as they were treated somewhat fairly in the integration.
What's sad at this point is that if I asked most of you SWA guys on here which one you wold prefer, you would reject both of them, and you don't really know why, or you won't admit it.
But, as I said, it's become obvious that the only thing that will satisfy some of you is pure hazing so as to initiate the new guys into your club.
When you have a SWA FO say that most of the SWA FO's would have voted against the agreement that was presented, when they were the ones who were going to gain the most from the agreement (for 9 years!
), it obvious and that's why everyone is mesmerized by the show. Classic indeed.
Which integration method do you prefer?
At this point of every other merger I have seen, the "sides" have figured out what it best for their individual group overall. For instance, NWA wanted DOH, DAL wanted ratio's. US Airways wanted DOH, America West wanted ratios.
What's funny is I get the feeling that, while individual AT pilots have figured out which one is best for them and prefer that, the Air Tran pilot group as a whole would take either one, just as long as they were treated somewhat fairly in the integration.
What's sad at this point is that if I asked most of you SWA guys on here which one you wold prefer, you would reject both of them, and you don't really know why, or you won't admit it.
But, as I said, it's become obvious that the only thing that will satisfy some of you is pure hazing so as to initiate the new guys into your club.
When you have a SWA FO say that most of the SWA FO's would have voted against the agreement that was presented, when they were the ones who were going to gain the most from the agreement (for 9 years!
), it obvious and that's why everyone is mesmerized by the show. Classic indeed.Which integration method do you prefer?
08-25-2011, 07:22 PM
#129
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Glass Guppy
Posts: 73
If WN was to say hire 500 pilots over the next year, and give preference hiring to AirTran pilots, I wonder just how many would leave AT right now?
One thing I got to say about irony and ALPA, Valujet was the original carrier before they bought AirTran (mainly for the name change, after the 1996 Valujet crash in the everglades). Valujet was started by EAL Scabs that crossed the line in '89. I think it is quite ironic that ALPA represents a carrier that was started by a group who crossed an ALPA strike. (I know that not every one at VJ was an EAL Scab, but the ones who were EAL scabs were also some of the founding fathers of VJ).
So how does ALPA justify that? (Forgive and Forget?)
Has anyone figured out the more ALPA gets involved in a pilots career, the more screwed up it gets?
Has anyone noticed how "Pro-Alpa" pilots become more miserable with their airline career as they get closer to retirement?
I am not surprised one bit that JetBlue turned down ALPA.
The anti SWA group may not like SWA or SWAPA or anything else for that matter. That's fine, they are entitled to their opinion. However ask any WN pilot about how satisfied they are with their company, their Union, QOL, Pay, schedules and anything else about their career at Southwest. You will hear a lot more positive things than anything negative. That is the truth above all.
One thing I got to say about irony and ALPA, Valujet was the original carrier before they bought AirTran (mainly for the name change, after the 1996 Valujet crash in the everglades). Valujet was started by EAL Scabs that crossed the line in '89. I think it is quite ironic that ALPA represents a carrier that was started by a group who crossed an ALPA strike. (I know that not every one at VJ was an EAL Scab, but the ones who were EAL scabs were also some of the founding fathers of VJ).
So how does ALPA justify that? (Forgive and Forget?)
Has anyone figured out the more ALPA gets involved in a pilots career, the more screwed up it gets?
Has anyone noticed how "Pro-Alpa" pilots become more miserable with their airline career as they get closer to retirement?
I am not surprised one bit that JetBlue turned down ALPA.
The anti SWA group may not like SWA or SWAPA or anything else for that matter. That's fine, they are entitled to their opinion. However ask any WN pilot about how satisfied they are with their company, their Union, QOL, Pay, schedules and anything else about their career at Southwest. You will hear a lot more positive things than anything negative. That is the truth above all.
08-25-2011, 07:35 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,636
