ClipperJet

Oh, I'm not advocating a staple, just showing how the "pay doesn't matter, seniority does" and "they won't factor in pay" arguments fall short.

If ex-AirTran FOs will leave SWA in droves for more money, which airlines pay more than SWA? Where will they be going?

Bucking Bar

Isn't that "self help" and just as illegal as an illegal work stoppage?

W0X0F

You honestly think that SWA rates are going to be top of the heap when DAL and UCAL finish their next contracts? Really? The bottom guys at DAL right now are 7ER FOs. YOu think those rates are going to be below SWA's 737 FO rates? SWA are going right back to where they have always been in the pecking order. But the argument is moot right now. Come back in 2 years and we'll talk. I'll even help you with your app.

Check Essential

Money is always a factor. Certainly won't be the only one though.
Arbitrators always reject a simplistic comparison of last year's W-2s in creating the combined list. Here's what the Delta seniority ruling said about taking past or present circumstances and projecting them into the future:

On the one hand, dealing with the future prospects of anything in the airline
industry is nothing short of reading tea leaves or, to cite a far more daunting venture, predicting fuel prices. On the other hand, those sorts of assessments are the stuff of which “career expectations” are made. Therefore, it is appropriate that one examine possibilities and potentials to whatever extent is reasonable, in the course of constructing a merged seniority list that is fair and equitable.
...

An integrated list that responds solely to statistical absolutes (for example), with no broader view of the short and long-term impact on career expectations, might be considered nominally fair but realistically inequitable. Too, a process that ignores reality and bypasses facts, that pursues, instead, an illusory notion of “something for everyone,” could hardly be fair.
In constructing this list, we have inquired as to where the respective groups

have been and we have made reasoned judgments as to where they were going. We have attempted, at all times, to recognize reasonable expectations of both parties while, in all instances, rejecting proposals that, however facially logical, resulted in untenable windfalls.
The resulting list neither realizes nor maintains each and every career
expectations, nor could it do so. No recitation of career expectations ever includes a merger, and no merger can leave all hopes and plans unaffected.

nwaf16dude

I don't think having new hires in the ER FO seat says anything good about our contract. It mostly tells you that being an ER FO on reserve really sucks. If we get a decent raise and improve the reserve rules significantly, the bottom guys at Delta will not be 7ER FOs anymore.

W0X0F

Unless they get bumped and until we hire, they still will be. But the point is that those rates are an aberration and that even the lowly M88FOs (no offense intended) are gonna be making more than SWA FOs after the next contract. THAT was my point.

mulcher

I sure hope you are right. It will help us get more then 3%.

j3beech18

wow have i been naive. i was under the initial impression when sw bought us, that swapa and airtran pilots would have some ligitimate differences in seniority integration, try to work them out, and if not , have an arbitrator decide it for us. we would go through this process with respect for our fellow aviators flying the other color airplanes. instead, and very sadly so, It seems that swapa leadership has been acting as if we are an enemy. I hope they realize we will all be one pilot group at some point. wouldn't it be nice if they could keep this in mind before rallying the troops against us. Also, GK seems to be standing behind them as if whatever they offer should be welcomed without question. One Luv hah
The only reason our intigration team voted yes, was because swapa has decided not to look at precedent of other airline mergers by stuffing this rediculous list down our throat (i would lose 4years 3months, and 30% relative seniority)and the big dog in the room made (option b threats). the yes vote was a fear vote. our mec did the right thing. hopefully it is the smart thing. bottom line is we all have familly's and want security for them. putting fear into your future fellow crewmembers is not the right thing to do. They say they dont want their culture ruined. well as far as i can tell SW pilots were not always SW pilots. they did a pretty good job conforming. i'm sure we can too. unless ofcourse we are treated like second class citizens before given the privelege.
sorry for rant. would just like to be treated with respect while the agreed upon integration process follows its intended path. I'm sure it will all work out in the end. weather SWAPA leadership wants to admit it or not, we do bring alot to the table, and as GK has stated, this merger/aquisition will bring much needed growth to SW.

1Seat 1Engine

The company respected you enough offer $200+/hr on a 119 seat airplane.

You turned it down. Now it's doubtful that offer will return.

You really think this is about respect?

JohnDeere

So, as we can see, money is all these guys really care about.

BTW, what is the rate for the 500? How about the 800?