80ktsClamp

I don't doubt that there are quite a few at AT who have their apps in with WN as well as other carriers (we picked up quite a few as well), however that doesn't mean jack squat in a seniority list integration.

AT was a pretty rough carrier to work for the past few years... during the mid 2000's when none of the other majors were hiring (sans southwest and fedex) AT was a place where some of the top notch guys went to. Some of the favorite guys I flew with at my previous carrier were hired then. They made captain in about the same time period that a WN type at that time made captain.

The later 2000's when everyone else was hiring, the quality dropped, which I can definitely vouch for. Guys got hired there from my previous carrier that I didn't think should even be trusted flying....anything. Let's just leave it at that... Then came the horrible mgmt/workgroup relations which wreaked of the ancient ex-eastern roots which held them at low payrates while consistently making money.

So, I generally agree with you in the contract differences, but then we diverge.
The problem therein lies for the WN guys to somehow prove that you are superior to an arbiter while flying the exact same aircraft on less diversified routes.

1. I really do think you will get credit in seniority for the time the company has been in existance.

2. I also think you will get credit for the superior contract.

However, it will not look like the AIPs... i think it will be a watered down ratio like I previously spoke of.


Someone spoke of probation for the trannies brought over... yikes! This is a merger no matter how many times you tell yourself that it is an acquisition. They aren't newhires. Show some "luv."

Boogie Nights

You might as well ask.....
Had SWA not bought AT, how many AT guys would have put apps in at SWA when they opened the window?

I consider that irrelevant at this point. Anger does not change the facts or move us forward. The parties on both sides can only decide what is best for themselves and vote if it comes to it.

I know most folks on both sides will move forward after this is done. You can fight for your side till the battle is lost and then move on, or spend your life unhappy.

Staying angry does'nt help. Me I want to work at SWA. I will do a good job. That said I will need to read all proposals talk with friends and both sides and decide what is best for myself, my family and lastly my fellow pilots at AT.

I have 2 wishes at this point. I want information from my union leadership as to what the proposal is, and if we SWAPA AND AT pass this to move on. The sooner we become productive, sooner we kick a$$ and grow as a airline, the sooner companies and my situation will improve.

If we don't pass this....

Pilots love being in control. I hate most of all, in this process, the feeling I have no control ( this is do to a lack of info, rumors and conjecture) I would like facts. If I end up on the street that in itself would suck but it would give me back a measure of control in my life.

Maybe it would have been better if late Sept last year SWA leadership had just told us what the deal would be, and we could have all decided what we wanted to do and have moved on each to his own conscience.

Each side is doing the best it can, at this point, for its own group.
AT folks have to decide if they want to grab the bull by the horns.
SWAPA is fortunate to have leadership to defend their position, probably why most AT folks celebrate when news broke we were being bought; we wanted good leadership rather than management

Can we at least agree to move forward after this done? Complaining about what could have been wont help. Keeping the planes moving will help.

However this turns out good luck to all on all sides. Vote informed and not out of fear.

B-

P.S Oscar I appreciate your calmness.

Boogie Nights

I am not sure 1 Seat and WM will ever buy each other a beer. Who knows what 20 years will bring.

Hopefully one day we can say "Remember when..."

4th Level

Wrong.

This is an AQUISITION no matter how many times you tell yourself it's a merger.

From Gary Kelly's letter to all pilots dated Aug, 22;

".....Airtran has been bought and is now owned by Southwest Airlines."

SteelHorseFlyer

unrealistic and you and everyone else knows it. you wont find a replacement job at this income level so you are stuck with us. people will behave enough to not get fired but the 'luv' CULTure will never be embraced when 1/4 of the total employees were so deliberately smacked down. cant be said enough you have done it to yourselves no one else to blame.

Carl Spackler

Ouch!

Carl

fireman0174

When United bought PAA's Pacific division one could have called that an "acquisition". It however was treated and referred to as a merger.

UAL paid $$$ for some old airplanes, international routes and personnel. DOH was used for seniority list integration, at least for the pilots and I believe also for the flight attendants.

The same thing happened when UAL purchased PAA's London routes a few years later.

Gary Kelly can call it what he wants, but sitting in the cheap seats I see it as a merger.

It's also worth noting, IMO, that AirTran was not in chapter 11, so there was no "fire sale" going on and the entire airline, not just a part of it, was bought.

Check Essential

Touche'.
That may be the best rebuttal I've ever seen on this forum.

The final chapter hasn't been written yet at Delta and the Moak/DALPA "constructive engagement" strategy might still pay off with a sweet contract finished by the amendable date.
However, until that happens we certainly can't criticize SWAPA for being "tight" with management.
Delta ALPA has elevated it to an art form. We'll know next year whether it worked for us.

gipple

You carefully chose words like "despicable" "sickening". Why would one stay under those perceived conditions? And as so many have claimed "this income level" may only be temporary. Surely there must be another career path for you and your skill set.

SteelHorseFlyer

check again I didnt say those words hoss that was someone else. what I said was that your people have turned an optimistic happy group into a disgruntled group of people who will never embrace your culture. thank gary when it becomes obvious on the line in a few years. didnt have to be the way. too bad