shoelu

First off, everyone seems to conviently forget that this was not SWAPA's deal. It was SWA's pure and simple. SWAPA does not in any way control the purse strings folks. To say that "SWAPA is aiming for max pain at this point" is ridiculous. SWAPA will not begin to represent AT pilots until they are SWAPA members. All financial dealings will be with SWA not SWAPA. ALPA will deal with SWA to hammer out all financial aspects of this deal outside of an arbitrated seniority list. SWA offered a deal that included concrete: rates of pay, longevity, date of SWAPA contract and representation...etc. This deal was rejected and all agreed upon financials went with it and will now need to be re-negotiated. None of this has been controlled by SWAPA.

tsquared030

That's because it is a, "Super Premium" culture.

T

tsquare

Your merger is not in a vacuum, but carry on soldier

tsquare

So then GK IS trying to destroy that culture... interesting.

shoelu

I think it remains to be seen what his intentions are at this time. He has stated he is considering "other" options. What the "other" options are is purely speculation unless he chooses to share that information.

OscartheGrouch

My best conspiracy theory would be to make SWA just like every other airline. Sew distrust/angst and maybe someday ALPA will be able to make a sales pitch to the "new" SWAPA and convince us to join the 2% club. When someone sayss that ALPA is only advising and the AT pilots are in complete control, I am just not buying it. Just saying.

The Oscar

Check Essential

Yeah. He has tried holding himself hostage and didn't have much luck.
He briefly moved on to kicking and screaming and nobody paid much attention except his fanboys in SWAPA who held a rally to console him.

Next step after anger is .... wait for it..... bargaining!!

Then finally acceptance.

OscartheGrouch

Well Eric, thanks for stating the obvious. Go back one year and those expectations might not have been to go to industry leading 737 pay and some work rules and benefits that many would like to have. As a stand alone, how long would it have taken the AT pilots to achieve the pay and benefits that SWA has?

Now before the Harpies start in with the "we were the best paid" and "the only reason you have that is 'cause we took a pay cut," I know things can be temporary and for now I feel very fortunate. Honestly though, what could the mighty ALPA have done to achieve the current pay scale that SWA pilots have?

Oh! and guess what. That type rating I paid for in 1989 has been a much better investment then anything I have done since.

The Oscar

OscartheGrouch

Thanks Tsquare! SWA is pretty much on the path to just being another job. The evolution that DAL was required to go through must have been hard to endure. I am feeling some of that (as are others), I think.

I am still waiting for answers to the questions I have been asking. So I will ask them in a different way. Should AT pilots receive all the pay and benefits without any sacrifice whatsoever? I have said from the beginning that we should have gone to arbitration immediately. Why? I am not the only one who saw this situation coming. Now we have distrust and a blame game going on instead of laying it on the arbitrators.

I have consistently maintained that this probably won't affect me as far as seniority goes, but it will have an effect on the workplace environment that I have found to be very pleasant. How much of that can we salvage? None? It is just sad.

The Oscar

alfaromeo

The general answer to your question is no, there is no sacrifice required. You have a pilot group, they have a contract, that's what pilots get paid. Try to come up with some justification for a B-Scale at Southwest. However, an arbitrator will consider that there would have been some number of years before Airtran pilots achieve equality with Southwest pilots in their contract. Remember, you are in a commodity industry and the low cost provider will win every time. That is why Airtran was growing and Southwest was stagnant. Everyone realizes that parity would occur at some point.

An arbitrator will also recognize the longevity differences in the group to some degree. That will flavor the makeup of the list and probably not be determinative.

These two factors mean that the list will not be pure relative seniority. I think there will be a block of Southwest pilots at the top of the list and a block of Airtran pilots at the bottom of the list. These blocks will be much smaller than what you had in SL9. The rest of the list will be some ratio or ratios.

There will be a fence to protect Airtran Captains for some number of years. There may be a fence to ensure some number of upgrades for Southwest first officers but probably not.

The real question is what Southwest pilots will do when they get the bad news. Will they go on a self destructive jihad fighting the list like the US Air pilots have done? Or will they just move on and accept that angels don't sing from the heavens every time you put down the landing gear?