AirTran MEC Rejects SLI proposal
08-24-2011, 08:41 AM
#391
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
First off, there haven't been any 3 yr. upgrades in the 20+ years I have been here unless you count out of seniority upgrades. Second - I am completely amazed at the disconnect between thought processes by both the SWA folks and AT (plus their cheerleaders). Again, be very careful who you think has your back. ALPA wants this to be painful. Plain and simple.
Example - From our SWAPA forum before AT's MEC voted no. 2-3 year FO, "I can't believe what I sacrificed to come to SWA." I thought to myself that that was a bit self-serving. Then I began to ponder what it was that the AT folks are willing to sacrifice to get this deal done. I ask this question again - Are the AT guys expecting to receive all the benefits of this deal? Snap back to a year ago........what truly were the career expectations of the AT pilot group?
While I maintain that I am still a moderate on this deal, frankly I am starting to lean in favor of my fellow (current) pilots and SWAPA. With the cheerleaders spouting venom (ALPA) are the AT pilots willing to sacrifice what little "culture" we might have left when this is done? If so then I would rather the deal be killed if possible.
The Oscar
P. S. I feel that a Deere John letter is welling up inside of me.
Example - From our SWAPA forum before AT's MEC voted no. 2-3 year FO, "I can't believe what I sacrificed to come to SWA." I thought to myself that that was a bit self-serving. Then I began to ponder what it was that the AT folks are willing to sacrifice to get this deal done. I ask this question again - Are the AT guys expecting to receive all the benefits of this deal? Snap back to a year ago........what truly were the career expectations of the AT pilot group?
While I maintain that I am still a moderate on this deal, frankly I am starting to lean in favor of my fellow (current) pilots and SWAPA. With the cheerleaders spouting venom (ALPA) are the AT pilots willing to sacrifice what little "culture" we might have left when this is done? If so then I would rather the deal be killed if possible.
The Oscar
P. S. I feel that a Deere John letter is welling up inside of me.
The other observation is that I feel your pain. We used to have the Delta Family... the employees chipped in and bought a 767 for cryin' out loud... That dies a horrible death. Welcome to reality.. (for us). Maybe it won't happen to you, but short a dissolution of this deal, there WILL be hard feelings on one side or the other. For that I send you condolences.
08-24-2011, 08:46 AM
#392
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Ya know that is a great point. A SW guy that has been an FO for 8 years should be senior to a 7 year captain at Airtran. I wonder if the AT guys think this would be fair to switch uniforms and be sitting in the left seat with a SWA guy in the right seat who has more years at SW? Just wondering?
08-24-2011, 08:49 AM
#394
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
The deal is done. ATN has been acquired by SWA. The pilots of Airtran will be getting a payraise. They deserve proper seniority to go along with that. To bend over and give up that seniority for a payraise that they are gonna get anyway is flat out stupid.
OK.. so the alternate is for GK.. and NOT the ATN guys.. to punish them for not signing the deal. Would he really do that? Methinks not because nothing will kill the coveted culture faster than to alienate a big portion of the employee group. Doesn't make sense. GK is no fool, and he knows that if he stomps on ATN for fighting for their rights, he will just create another USAir debacle. And HIS career won't last long if that happens.
Or did you just forget to sign off on a public computer?
08-24-2011, 08:52 AM
#396
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
08-24-2011, 08:54 AM
#397
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Ya know that is a great point. A SW guy that has been an FO for 8 years should be senior to a 7 year captain at Airtran. I wonder if the AT guys think this would be fair to switch uniforms and be sitting in the left seat with a SWA guy in the right seat who has more years at SW? Just wondering?
08-24-2011, 08:55 AM
#398
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
08-24-2011, 10:03 AM
#399
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
So if it's not about you guys, you can't continue to use your merger as an example of how it should go.
This specific exchange between you and I was really initiated by me answering a question from FTB about that exact subject.
08-24-2011, 10:10 AM
#400
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Ya know that is a great point. A SW guy that has been an FO for 8 years should be senior to a 7 year captain at Airtran. I wonder if the AT guys think this would be fair to switch uniforms and be sitting in the left seat with a SWA guy in the right seat who has more years at SW? Just wondering?
Let's be honest about where we are, so we don't have to go through it all over again. You will be all for date of hire until you realize that it might hurt one person on your list.
You know, then you will say something like:
"What about the guy who left Air Tran to come to Southwest? He shouldn't lose seniority to AT guys."
Or:
"What about the fairly senior SWA captain who will be junior to the #1 Air Tran pilot? I KNOW the Air Tran guy got turned down at Southwest TWICE!"
Date of Hire or Relative Seniority, either way, their will be people on both sides who feel some pain. When someone says they will protect everyone on their side, they can only be talking about one thing: A staple job for the other side.
If a staple job is what you want, just admit it. Because, it's becoming obvious that that's the only thing that will satisfy some pilots on the SWA side.
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