OscartheGrouch

First off, there haven't been any 3 yr. upgrades in the 20+ years I have been here unless you count out of seniority upgrades. Second - I am completely amazed at the disconnect between thought processes by both the SWA folks and AT (plus their cheerleaders). Again, be very careful who you think has your back. ALPA wants this to be painful. Plain and simple.

Example - From our SWAPA forum before AT's MEC voted no. 2-3 year FO, "I can't believe what I sacrificed to come to SWA." I thought to myself that that was a bit self-serving. Then I began to ponder what it was that the AT folks are willing to sacrifice to get this deal done. I ask this question again - Are the AT guys expecting to receive all the benefits of this deal? Snap back to a year ago........what truly were the career expectations of the AT pilot group?

While I maintain that I am still a moderate on this deal, frankly I am starting to lean in favor of my fellow (current) pilots and SWAPA. With the cheerleaders spouting venom (ALPA) are the AT pilots willing to sacrifice what little "culture" we might have left when this is done? If so then I would rather the deal be killed if possible.

The Oscar

P. S. I feel that a Deere John letter is welling up inside of me.

slowplay

Just how are you going to go about undoing a closed corporate deal, Oscar? Spin AirTran off as an independent again? Good luck with that.

Your management wanted this deal. You guys (Swapa and AirTran ALPA) have a process agreement in place. You're on step 2 of the process and your feelings are "hurt" by "venom" from people not even involved in the process.

Please...

Turn your questions that you asked the AT guys around...what were the career expectations of a junior Swapa pilot...then compare that to the economic reality that your company is reporting. Suddenly the question posed from a different point of view isn't quite as comfortable to answer, is it?

I work for a company that had 17 years in a row of number 1 performance and the best labor management relations in the industry. It's why I wanted to work there. Poor timing of an acquisition and bad management caused us to start losing money, and the culture changed fast. Sound familiar? If the culture is worth something to you, invest in it. If not, join the ranks of the rest of the legacy airlines with "us vs. them." AirTran isn't Muse or Morris. Since the deal closed your fellow pilots have included the AirTran guys...Kelly and the Board decided that.

Good luck.

btw, what does ALPA gain by having this process be "painful." That's an inane argument!

Eric Stratton

What did that person sacrifice to go to Southwest? Other than the type rating that they most likely paid for.

Then did that Airtran pilot have that same sacrifice?

Just a guess but I'm betting that both airlines career expectations were to be a 737 captain or maybe a 717 captain.

alfaromeo

You elect reps to spend the time and effort to learn the issues and then make the tough decisions, not just to throw their hands up and punt the issue.

The key problem is outsized expectations from the SWA pilots. I see the Airtran pilots as having realistic expectations. The SWA pilots have thrown a giant hissy fit over this entire integration and got their management team to try to hold a gun to the heads of the Airtran pilots to force them to accept a deal that was grossly lopsided.

The Airtran MEC met with advisors and lawyers, discussed the situation and made the tough call. They decided to find out how badly Gary Kelly will damage Southwest Airlines in order to satisfy the whining of the SWA pilots. This whole mess gets wrapped in the "Southwest Culture" argument that basically now means the whiners get to stomp their feet and get their way.

The question you really need to ask, is why won't SWAPA grow up, quit whining and take their case to the arbitrator. If their case is so strong then just litigate it and they will win. Easy, right? That fact is they know their case is based more on hot air than fact and they are scared of what a real grown up (or in this case a team of 3 experienced arbitrators) will say about their situation. Therefore they continue the whining and pouting. I read the SWAPA press release after the Airtran vote and I half expected the spokesman to end with, "We are now going to hold our breath until we turn blue." Grow up man, have some dignity.

SWAPA and the Southwest pilots know that their expectations are not in the ballpark of reality. That is why they use threats and intimidation to try to force Airtran to accept an inferior deal. Now they are crying because the Airtran MEC refused to bite.

Leaders should lead and that means doing what they were elected to do. Make the tough call.

Herkulesdrvr

seemed like At was getting a sweet deal going to an airline with a proven track record, 40 years of profits and never having a furlough? With so many people out of work you would think they would be happy with a pay raise and the job security at Southwest?

newKnow

You beat me to it. That's exactly what I thought when I read it.

Elvis90

I did some web surfing regarding the Southwest culture, and this is what I've found.

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Warrior Spirit:* work hard, desire to be the best, be courageous, display a sense of urgency, preserve, and innovate.

Servant’s Heart:* follow The Golden Rule, put others first, demonstrate proactive Customer Service (that includes both Internal--SWA Employees--and External Customers), and embrace the SWA Family.

Fun-LUVing Attitude:* don’t take yourself too seriously, maintain perspective (balance), celebrate successes, enjoy your work, and be a passionate Teamplayer.

---------

If you want to preserve your culture, which is a highly valuable feature of working at SWA, you'll need to exercise some of these character traits firsthand, i.e., "embracing the SWA family" and "exercising the Golden Rule", and especially "put others first" with respect to AirTran, a new member of your family. If you fail to exercise these character traits, then you are choosing to reject or change your own culture.

newKnow

I'm sure they are happy. But, what does that have to do with merging the seniority list?

The AT pilots will get these things regardless. So, the job security and pay raises are not really up for negotiations, are they?

NuGuy

This whole thing is starting to make the NWA/DAL deal look like a polite game of chess at Harvard Yard.

I see the AT guys as being pretty reserved, following the standard playbook of "well, we couldn't come to an agreement, so we go to the next step"


Nu

luv2fly2

Okay, I am sorry but here we go..... People who have NO idea how long the upgrade time is at SWA have NO business commenting! Three year upgrade time????? Better get your facts correct before stating something like that. There are guys at SWA that have been on property 6 - 8 years with no upgrade to the captain seat... Tell me how fair it is for a person hired at Airtan 7 years ago to come over to SWA and be placed in a Captain seat with captain pay when the Company that purchased and yes, I said purchased Airtan has 7 year FO's earning considerably less and keeping their FO seat. I just do not get why this is so called FAIR and Equitable............