1Seat 1Engine

Exactly, exactly. Now that we all agree that there's a certain amount of money that will make up for seniority, can we just argue about how much that is?

Looks like we all understand each other now.

tsquare

Your posts lately are pure flame bait.. and I just cannot resist.

So then tell me there Mr fighter pilot guy... how much money would it take for YOU to be stapled like you asked the Airtran guys to agree to? Oh, and don't forget that you wouldn't be able to upgrade for the forseeable future etc etc etc....

Clear Right

1 Seat,
No dog in the fight, but IMHO you are wrong, you can't all agree. The problem is it depends where you sit on the list. For the senior guys, their seniority is priceless, i.e. no amount of money will buy them off. For the middle of the pack...well now let's negotiate, how much money are you offering and how much of a seniority loss will it be?? And finally for the junior guys, well their lives sucked anyway...they just want a pay raise.

My personal opinion is, and again I have no dog in the fight, but I think SWA went too heavy, they should have appealed more to the middle of the pack and not have gone for soo much seniority and the vote may have been different.

tsquare

Thing is though.. they are gonna get a payraise in this merger. So why would they be willing to sell their seniority for something they are gonna get anyway. Not a done deal you say? If Gary Kelly is the genius that some seem to think he is, he knows that fragmenting the pilot group would put a dagger right in the heart of their precious culture... But then again, many people are short sighted.. so maybe the really junior guys COULD have been bought for 6 pieces of silver...

JohnDeere

The Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association didn't organize the event, but provided water and support after some of its members hurriedly put it together.

"The Southwest pilots are showing up here today in support of Southwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines leadership, our people, our culture and the success of our company," said Dallas pilot Jacob North, communications chairman for SWAPA.

"It's fair to say our pilots have always supported our company. In light of recent events in the acquisition, we just wanted our company to know that we do in fact support Southwest Airlines and its people going forward."

Asked if it was intended negatively toward anyone, North said, "Absolutely not."

Yes, a spontaneous event just broke out today at WN world HQ. No, no; SWAPA was barely aware of it. Uh-huh.

Let's be sure to check back in with Ms. North AFTER the arbitration panel hands down their seniority list. That should a real treat!

OscartheGrouch

DJ,

Sounds like your previous jobs have left you a bit jaded. So if you ask me really nicely and don't call me names I might answer your question. Never mind, because that Troll name is growing on me. Can't be any worse than that Sesame Street characters name I have had for over 25 years.

The Oscar

JohnDeere

Glad I could help!

t6marine

I really am lost in what the big deal is when it comes to allowing ATN pilots voting on the offer instead of the MEC taking that power out of the pilots hands and acting like the end all be all. Is the MEC that knowledgeable to withhold this deal from a vote or were they afraid that it might have passed on the larger scale?

Also, in business some people win and some people lose. No one said everything had to be equal and fair. There are many angles we could discuss here but the bottom line is let people vote on offers and see what happens. If they vote for a bad deal it is their fault and they have to live with it, if the vote for a good deal good for them.....

I have no dog in this fight but it seems silly to be complaining about senority numbers when pilots at other airlines have just as long to wait to move from one seat to the next. Especially when it comes with being bought out by a much larger and more successful company that offers much more to its employees than their old company.

Enjoy and I look forward to the nasty grams that will come my way but if we take a might to look at things I think it would make more sense than jumping on a bandwagon and driving off a cliff over small things.

Clear Right

T6 don't mean this to sound condececnding, but I assume you may be new to the industry. Seniority means everything, it is absolutely the most sacred part of an airline career, and for many it is priceless, not to be sacrificed for any amount of money. That is exactly why this is such a huge.

5wnriders

So lets go down that seniority road for a minute....

Scenario #1: Integration is ONE for ONE based on DOH after the Luv cappys pre 1993. If it's based on DOH, it will cause AT cappys to downgrade to FO’s. But AT got DOH Seniority. If it's DOH, seat lock doesn’t seem even possible, can it? But, the outcome of it should make both sides satisfied?? One for one seniority based on DOH and more $$ for AT guys and upgrades for the stagnated LUV FO’s.

Scenario #2: Seniority is determined by a ratio of AT guys to LUV's. Lets just say 3:1. Like above, new seniority list starts after the LUV’s cappys pre 1993. There will still be down grades for some AT capts and FO's sitting at the bottom as a function of the math.

I think most can agree the SL9 offer was crap for both sides in some way or form. Some saw it more objectionable than others for many reasons. But there has to be a way for integration to happen and create a spirit of unity in the end. (And, no I am not suggesting a chorus of Kumbaya, followed by a swig of canyon Kool-Aid!)

We all know no one side is going to get it all in this. Every group will have to decide what the priority for integration they want and “fight” to get it. Will the determining factor be seniority, seat lock, equipt.lock, money, Qol, commutes, domiciles or better ties. Take your pick, but NO ONE is going to get or keep it all.

This is but one person’s thinking out loud, not an intentional flame lobbed to harm or offend. All I know is at some point we’re going to want to sit in the bar and swap stories about the crazies hauled around in the back of our airplanes