AirTran MEC Rejects SLI proposal
08-21-2011, 06:34 AM
#201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
No worries my brother. As you and all of our 6000 Southwest pilots know, back when Southwest pilots were organizing their first organized labor effort, they approached ALPA for representation and ALPA gave Southwest pilots the middle finger.
Now all these years later, again, ALPA gave Southwest Airlines and SWAPA the middle finger.
I hear a lot of talk on this thread about ALPA lawsuits and litigation if Trannies don't get their way - either with Gary Kelly and/or SWAPA.
When I think of ALPA National and ALPA AirTran and their relationship to one another, the revenue ALPA national collects and the future relationship between the two entities, I can't help but think of the Sean Penn film, "Dead Man Walking" I wonder why?
I prefer playing chess to checkers any day of the week.
Now all these years later, again, ALPA gave Southwest Airlines and SWAPA the middle finger.
I hear a lot of talk on this thread about ALPA lawsuits and litigation if Trannies don't get their way - either with Gary Kelly and/or SWAPA.
When I think of ALPA National and ALPA AirTran and their relationship to one another, the revenue ALPA national collects and the future relationship between the two entities, I can't help but think of the Sean Penn film, "Dead Man Walking" I wonder why?
I prefer playing chess to checkers any day of the week.
08-21-2011, 06:41 AM
#202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
JD Flyer - why use the middle finger? Why be the adversary? Are we at war?
How about a hand shake that we will work together in the future. Do I agree with my company on everything? no. Do I agree with my union? no, not all of the time. I agree with my wife? hell no. Do I agree with my road spouse? I better.
Why fight the system? I not sure why, but you can sure work together to make it better.
How about a hand shake that we will work together in the future. Do I agree with my company on everything? no. Do I agree with my union? no, not all of the time. I agree with my wife? hell no. Do I agree with my road spouse? I better.
Why fight the system? I not sure why, but you can sure work together to make it better.
08-21-2011, 07:15 AM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 420
JD Flyer - why use the middle finger? Why be the adversary? Are we at war?
How about a hand shake that we will work together in the future. Do I agree with my company on everything? no. Do I agree with my union? no, not all of the time. I agree with my wife? hell no. Do I agree with my road spouse? I better.
Why fight the system? I not sure why, but you can sure work together to make it better.
How about a hand shake that we will work together in the future. Do I agree with my company on everything? no. Do I agree with my union? no, not all of the time. I agree with my wife? hell no. Do I agree with my road spouse? I better.
Why fight the system? I not sure why, but you can sure work together to make it better.
Not the other way around. ALPA's history against Southwest and its pilots speaks for itself.
08-21-2011, 10:05 AM
#205
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
What history against SWAPA? Please give us some facts. The only time ALPA has disagreed with SWAPA was over the age 60 rule.
08-21-2011, 12:05 PM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 420
1) "Finger #1" - 1978, Southwest pilots approach ALPA for representation in an organized labor effort. ALPA says "Go pound sand, and don't let the door hit you in the !@# on the way out." Effective result - Herb Kelleher, reaches into his own personal financial pocket and gives those Southwest pilots the money to start their own union - SWAPA. Thank you, thank you, thank you ALPA!!!
2) "Finger #2" - Last week, in a vote that was 7-1 against sending the proposed SLI to their membership for a vote. Effective result - the AirTran MEC deprived Southwest Airlines, SWAPA pilots and AirTran pilots of the ability to Vote on their future.
Regardless of what the vote outcome may or may not have been, whether YES or NO by one or both groups, and whether or not this would have gone to arbitration anyway is totally moot.
7 ALPA Masters of The Universe decided to take matters into their own hands and FORCE arbitration for approx. 6,800 pilots and their families.
ALPA's ethos of arrogance at its finest! At least ALPA is predictable.
08-21-2011, 12:51 PM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
The two in particular that I was referring to in my previous post:
1) "Finger #1" - 1978, Southwest pilots approach ALPA for representation in an organized labor effort. ALPA says "Go pound sand, and don't let the door hit you in the !@# on the way out." Effective result - Herb Kelleher, reaches into his own personal financial pocket and gives those Southwest pilots the money to start their own union - SWAPA. Thank you, thank you, thank you ALPA!!!
2) "Finger #2" - Last week, in a vote that was 7-1 against sending the proposed SLI to their membership for a vote. Effective result - the AirTran MEC deprived Southwest Airlines, SWAPA pilots and AirTran pilots of the ability to Vote on their future.
Regardless of what the vote outcome may or may not have been, whether YES or NO by one or both groups, and whether or not this would have gone to arbitration anyway is totally moot.
7 ALPA Masters of The Universe decided to take matters into their own hands and FORCE arbitration for approx. 6,800 pilots and their families.
ALPA's ethos of arrogance at its finest! At least ALPA is predictable.
1) "Finger #1" - 1978, Southwest pilots approach ALPA for representation in an organized labor effort. ALPA says "Go pound sand, and don't let the door hit you in the !@# on the way out." Effective result - Herb Kelleher, reaches into his own personal financial pocket and gives those Southwest pilots the money to start their own union - SWAPA. Thank you, thank you, thank you ALPA!!!
2) "Finger #2" - Last week, in a vote that was 7-1 against sending the proposed SLI to their membership for a vote. Effective result - the AirTran MEC deprived Southwest Airlines, SWAPA pilots and AirTran pilots of the ability to Vote on their future.
Regardless of what the vote outcome may or may not have been, whether YES or NO by one or both groups, and whether or not this would have gone to arbitration anyway is totally moot.
7 ALPA Masters of The Universe decided to take matters into their own hands and FORCE arbitration for approx. 6,800 pilots and their families.
ALPA's ethos of arrogance at its finest! At least ALPA is predictable.
ALPA never told SW to pound sand on organizing efforts. Show me even a shred of evidence. ALPA represented many small airlines back then and always attempted to add members not turn down those asking to join. 1978 is a long time ago but I believe what happened was that SWA pilots requested financial help from ALPA to organize but wanted their own union. ALPA wanted to organize them as a part of the ALPA association.
You second statement sounds like someone speaking out of fear. First you fail to understand how ALPA is organized. AirTran pilots have their own union. ALPA is a association that provides resources and a national voice on issues effecting all pilots. They did not tell the AirTran MEC how to vote. The AirTran MEC voted based on the merits of the SLI presented and input from the pilot group. I don't know a single Airtran pilot who wanted the MEC to pass this list. In fact I heard there may be a recall effort for the one rep who voted for it.
It sounds like you fear arbitration. Why? You will present your case and Airtran will present theirs. SWAPA and SWA along with the Airtran MEC came up with and approved a transition agreement detailing how they would obtain a SLI. Why don't you want to honor that agreement? What are you afraid of? If you arguments are so compelling then perhaps you will do even better in arbitration then the voted down SLI.
08-21-2011, 12:54 PM
#208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
The two in particular that I was referring to in my previous post:
1) "Finger #1" - 1978, Southwest pilots approach ALPA for representation in an organized labor effort. ALPA says "Go pound sand, and don't let the door hit you in the !@# on the way out." Effective result - Herb Kelleher, reaches into his own personal financial pocket and gives those Southwest pilots the money to start their own union - SWAPA. Thank you, thank you, thank you ALPA!!!
2) "Finger #2" - Last week, in a vote that was 7-1 against sending the proposed SLI to their membership for a vote. Effective result - the AirTran MEC deprived Southwest Airlines, SWAPA pilots and AirTran pilots of the ability to Vote on their future.
Regardless of what the vote outcome may or may not have been, whether YES or NO by one or both groups, and whether or not this would have gone to arbitration anyway is totally moot.
7 ALPA Masters of The Universe decided to take matters into their own hands and FORCE arbitration for approx. 6,800 pilots and their families.
ALPA's ethos of arrogance at its finest! At least ALPA is predictable.
1) "Finger #1" - 1978, Southwest pilots approach ALPA for representation in an organized labor effort. ALPA says "Go pound sand, and don't let the door hit you in the !@# on the way out." Effective result - Herb Kelleher, reaches into his own personal financial pocket and gives those Southwest pilots the money to start their own union - SWAPA. Thank you, thank you, thank you ALPA!!!
2) "Finger #2" - Last week, in a vote that was 7-1 against sending the proposed SLI to their membership for a vote. Effective result - the AirTran MEC deprived Southwest Airlines, SWAPA pilots and AirTran pilots of the ability to Vote on their future.
Regardless of what the vote outcome may or may not have been, whether YES or NO by one or both groups, and whether or not this would have gone to arbitration anyway is totally moot.
7 ALPA Masters of The Universe decided to take matters into their own hands and FORCE arbitration for approx. 6,800 pilots and their families.
ALPA's ethos of arrogance at its finest! At least ALPA is predictable.
Dude, are you high?! Let me explain to you what happened. There was a huge uproar from the pilot group over this POS that was called the Agreement in Principle. We DEMANDED that the MEC not even put it out for vote, so for the record the MEC did NOT make an end run around the pilot group but instead listened to us. So try not to believe every spin that Steve Chase and company put out to your pilot group.
Make no mistake that the AirTran pilot group was ****ED about what our Merger Committee brought back. The 7 ALPA Masters of the Universe did not take matters into their own hands. They listened to the uproar from their pilots that we wanted this attrocity of an SLI killed ASAP.
I've made a promise to myself that WHEN not IF (your scare tactics don't phase me) I am a SWA pilot, I will not contribute to the overwhelming impression that the SWA pilots have amongst their peers. Namely the arrogance, entitlement, and ego.
08-21-2011, 12:57 PM
#209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
ALPA never told SW to pound sand on organizing efforts. Show me even a shred of evidence. ALPA represented many small airlines back then and always attempted to add members not turn down those asking to join. 1978 is a long time ago but I believe what happened was that SWA pilots requested financial help from ALPA to organize but wanted their own union. ALPA wanted to organize them as a part of the ALPA association.
You second statement sounds like someone speaking out of fear. First you fail to understand how ALPA is organized. AirTran pilots have their own union. ALPA is a association that provides resources and a national voice on issues effecting all pilots. They did not tell the AirTran MEC how to vote. The AirTran MEC voted based on the merits of the SLI presented and input from the pilot group. I don't know a single Airtran pilot who wanted the MEC to pass this list. In fact I heard there may be a recall effort for the one rep who voted for it.
It sounds like you fear arbitration. Why? You will present your case and Airtran will present theirs. SWAPA and SWA along with the Airtran MEC came up with and approved a transition agreement detailing how they would obtain a SLI. Why don't you want to honor that agreement? What are you afraid of? If you arguments are so compelling then perhaps you will do even better in arbitration then the voted down SLI.
You second statement sounds like someone speaking out of fear. First you fail to understand how ALPA is organized. AirTran pilots have their own union. ALPA is a association that provides resources and a national voice on issues effecting all pilots. They did not tell the AirTran MEC how to vote. The AirTran MEC voted based on the merits of the SLI presented and input from the pilot group. I don't know a single Airtran pilot who wanted the MEC to pass this list. In fact I heard there may be a recall effort for the one rep who voted for it.
It sounds like you fear arbitration. Why? You will present your case and Airtran will present theirs. SWAPA and SWA along with the Airtran MEC came up with and approved a transition agreement detailing how they would obtain a SLI. Why don't you want to honor that agreement? What are you afraid of? If you arguments are so compelling then perhaps you will do even better in arbitration then the voted down SLI.
08-21-2011, 02:26 PM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 659
Airtran guys,
I hope we can get an agreement that is acceptable to both sides. That being said, if the list comes out and my seniority is hurt now or in the future (Retire in the top 4%) I will fight this as hard as I can. I agree that relative doesn't hurt me today, but it most certainly will when it comes time to bid for widebodies (so TSquirt and I can hang out in BOM),vacations etc in the future as the younger group slows the retirements in front of me.
Hopefully you guys will be able to join the evil empire soon, the anger will make you strong.
I hope we can get an agreement that is acceptable to both sides. That being said, if the list comes out and my seniority is hurt now or in the future (Retire in the top 4%) I will fight this as hard as I can. I agree that relative doesn't hurt me today, but it most certainly will when it comes time to bid for widebodies (so TSquirt and I can hang out in BOM),vacations etc in the future as the younger group slows the retirements in front of me.
Hopefully you guys will be able to join the evil empire soon, the anger will make you strong.
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