Southwest/AirTran deal easy landing
05-25-2011, 07:46 AM
#71
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
some of you still dont get it and it will work out in the end but the air tran guys get all the money in this deal. they get money, benefits, 401k, scheduling, profit sharing, etc etc ... yes the COMPANY gets airplanes and gates and even intl,,,, but that is for the company the pilots still get nothing out of this they cant go to the bank and say give me a loan we might grow!!!! the airtran guys can get all the money they want but there has to be a balance!!!! and right now the sw guys get NOTHING in their pocket from this!!!
05-25-2011, 07:51 AM
#73
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
some of you still dont get it and it will work out in the end but the air tran guys get all the money in this deal. they get money, benefits, 401k, scheduling, profit sharing, etc etc ... yes the COMPANY gets airplanes and gates and even intl,,,, but that is for the company the pilots still get nothing out of this they cant go to the bank and say give me a loan we might grow!!!! the airtran guys can get all the money they want but there has to be a balance!!!! and right now the sw guys get NOTHING in their pocket from this!!!
05-25-2011, 08:42 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
We need to expand our thinking here just a little bit.
There is no provision in SWAPA's contract for bidding between aircraft types, and there is no pay scale for 717's.
We need to come to a mutually agreeable solution where we can all enjoy the benefits of a successful company.
There is no provision in SWAPA's contract for bidding between aircraft types, and there is no pay scale for 717's.
We need to come to a mutually agreeable solution where we can all enjoy the benefits of a successful company.
If the pay scale for the 717 comes in as significantly lower than the pay for the 737's, then you could argue that a relative seniority list would effect your earnings negatively. (Ie. when upgrade time came for SWA FO's, instead of getting to the big-time 737 captain pay, they would only be getting to the little-time 717 pay.)
How do you make sure no one gets screwed after the list is out? That is the essence if all SLI decisions.
Why do you think flight attendant seniority lists integrations are so easy? Because their pay is basically the same AFTER the merger.
DOH rules the day in flight attendant world because there is no rush for the big payoff in the left seat or widebody flying -- the pay rates are the same.
Relative seniority rules that day for pilots, because there is a rush for the big payoff -- the pay rates are different between captain and FO, big aircraft and little aircraft.
So, if your pay is the same after the merger, or even close, you are probably looking at a relative seniority list, or something close to it.
05-25-2011, 08:43 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
An alternative way out of this mess: AT/SWA get a mutually acceptable agreement that will even out the balance of this SLI and 50.1% find acceptable. We vote on it next month and by July all the AT pilots will be working under the SWAPA contract. Easy!
Or we continue monotously with the "relative seniority" mantra for some geologically significant period of time.
Honestly, SWA can't move on to buying Jet Blue until this thing is over, and then we can all get together and focus our hate on their pilot group. (yes, that last bit was full of sarcasm and irony)
Or we continue monotously with the "relative seniority" mantra for some geologically significant period of time.
Honestly, SWA can't move on to buying Jet Blue until this thing is over, and then we can all get together and focus our hate on their pilot group. (yes, that last bit was full of sarcasm and irony)
05-25-2011, 09:10 AM
#77
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 19
An alternative way out of this mess: AT/SWA get a mutually acceptable agreement that will even out the balance of this SLI and 50.1% find acceptable. We vote on it next month and by July all the AT pilots will be working under the SWAPA contract. Easy!
Or we continue monotously with the "relative seniority" mantra for some geologically significant period of time.
Honestly, SWA can't move on to buying Jet Blue until this thing is over, and then we can all get together and focus our hate on their pilot group. (yes, that last bit was full of sarcasm and irony)
Or we continue monotously with the "relative seniority" mantra for some geologically significant period of time.
Honestly, SWA can't move on to buying Jet Blue until this thing is over, and then we can all get together and focus our hate on their pilot group. (yes, that last bit was full of sarcasm and irony)
05-25-2011, 10:32 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Guard Bum/737 FO
Posts: 121
Wow, what a culture. You propose to put 1800 guys on the street, park what 130 some plus a/c while you are still paying for 130 some a/c. Train what you call 1800 "GOOD pilots", pay for lawsuits for the next 10 years. I think you should be the one to propose this to Mr. Kelly. Maybe the SWA culture would be a better place without people like you in it.
05-25-2011, 05:30 PM
#80
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 53
from a arbitrators point of view in regards to the money swa guys get none. the company gets the a/c not the pilots and you could argue that sw bring over 500 a/c to the air tran guys in looking at fair and equitable there is not equity in this for the sw guys so they should balance it with fair
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