Southwest/AirTran deal easy landing
05-24-2011, 02:07 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
IF AT pilots get relative seniority, then they get everything in this deal. 1. Huge pay raise, 2. better work rules, 3. 3 times more basing flexibility 4. a financially more stable company, 5. they don't have to worry about applying to another airline (because we all know many had apps in other companys)
It's going to arbitration anyway. Someone with an objective eye will be making the decision.
05-24-2011, 02:14 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
Our MC hasn't told us to expect anything. They'll either reach an agreement that gets voted on or it goes to arbitration.
Last edited by Frank Rizzo; 05-24-2011 at 02:27 PM.
05-24-2011, 02:52 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Guard Bum/737 FO
Posts: 121
So has anyone informed Mr. Kelly that if he doesn't staple his new 1,800 pilots and upgrade 1,800 FO's while ensuring all current FO's are Sr line holders his company will eventually be in ruins? I didn't realize FA's, Maintenance folks, all ground and all management people would half a$$ their jobs to run the company in the ground because the FO's are getting screwed. Guess I'm used to a management that would terminate a pilot not doing their job and hire one of the thousands of qualified dudes on the street who would do the job. guess I should sell my LUV stock since bankruptcy is in their future. The airline business is so hard to figure out.
05-24-2011, 04:16 PM
#55
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
Not worth it
You're right, the company wouldn't stop functioning if 1800 pilots were screwed, and the company would be able to find replacements if needed.
You're right, the company wouldn't stop functioning if 1800 pilots were screwed, and the company would be able to find replacements if needed.
Last edited by LuvJockey; 05-24-2011 at 04:29 PM.
05-24-2011, 04:34 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
05-24-2011, 05:08 PM
#58
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
IF AT pilots get relative seniority, then they get everything in this deal. 1. Huge pay raise, 2. better work rules, 3. 3 times more basing flexibility 4. a financially more stable company, 5. they don't have to worry about applying to another airline (because we all know many had apps in other companys) 6. Since they're on average much younger than SWA pilots (8 years on average) they get to enjoy all of this for a typically longer career and faster advancement because of older pilots ahead of them ....all for nothing?
SWAPA pilots get nothing. So why shouldn't we try to get something out of this deal? Just sayin, fair is fair.
Name one benefit of this deal that is UNIQUE to SWAPA pilots.
Until this ledger starts to balance out, my opinion is we will not have an agreement. What reasonable pilot would vote for this kind of deal?
I believe an arbitrator will see value in things outside of seniority,
as the law says "fair and equitable", it DOES NOT say "Relative Seniority" regardless of all other factors.
What you guys believe is what you believe. According to the AT and DL guys here, our fates are already decided. So unless something better is offered, I might as well just wait it out and drag it out as long as possible. What's my incentive not to? Like I said, there's nothing in this deal for me.
Done, that's my quota for the week
SWAPA pilots get nothing. So why shouldn't we try to get something out of this deal? Just sayin, fair is fair.
Name one benefit of this deal that is UNIQUE to SWAPA pilots.
Until this ledger starts to balance out, my opinion is we will not have an agreement. What reasonable pilot would vote for this kind of deal?
I believe an arbitrator will see value in things outside of seniority,
as the law says "fair and equitable", it DOES NOT say "Relative Seniority" regardless of all other factors.
What you guys believe is what you believe. According to the AT and DL guys here, our fates are already decided. So unless something better is offered, I might as well just wait it out and drag it out as long as possible. What's my incentive not to? Like I said, there's nothing in this deal for me.
Done, that's my quota for the week
The benefit to SWAPA pilots is growth, albeit not organic; foreign destinations, greater basing options, better footholds in big markets, more aircraft types, etc.
I agree that arbitrators will see benefits outside of seniority...like foreign destinations (AAI) and SWA senior pilots who have been around longer than AAI has been in existence.
Your age has nothing to do with it. Your choice of an airline with stagnant demographics has nothing to do with it.
Seniority integration based on last years W-2 is irrelavant.
05-24-2011, 05:51 PM
#59
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 53
some of you still dont get it and it will work out in the end but the air tran guys get all the money in this deal. they get money, benefits, 401k, scheduling, profit sharing, etc etc ... yes the COMPANY gets airplanes and gates and even intl,,,, but that is for the company the pilots still get nothing out of this they cant go to the bank and say give me a loan we might grow!!!! the airtran guys can get all the money they want but there has to be a balance!!!! and right now the sw guys get NOTHING in their pocket from this!!!
05-24-2011, 06:00 PM
#60
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
some of you still dont get it and it will work out in the end but the air tran guys get all the money in this deal. they get money, benefits, 401k, scheduling, profit sharing, etc etc ... yes the COMPANY gets airplanes and gates and even intl,,,, but that is for the company the pilots still get nothing out of this they cant go to the bank and say give me a loan we might grow!!!! the airtran guys can get all the money they want but there has to be a balance!!!! and right now the sw guys get NOTHING in their pocket from this!!!
1. is that true?
2. so what?
In no way am I engaging in SWA bashing, I have been where you are. At the end of the day, how you FEEL does not matter.
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