hercretired

what "way" is this ? post it notes and highlighters ?

e6bpilot

This all day. Not sure why some people want to fight this battle. It isn't like there is some empire in HQ at SWA that is banking the points and using them on personal vacations. The company books rooms for a reduced rate and points and stay credit isn't part of the deal. Some hotels are nice enough to give stay credit and you can put your card down for points on purchases.
It truly is what it is.
Most recently, the marriotts in the system have started denying existing platinum and titanium members lounge access even though they have earned the status. Again, it is what it is. Annoying? Yes. Worth fighting a battle over? Nah.

waterskisabersw

But not "this all day". Stay credits, loyalty access, etc, are all part of the rate that is negotiated. I've worked at multiple airlines that do pay rates that allow for crew to accrue points. I also have a couple side hustles where the hotels booked for me are not under my credit card (or one with anything even close to my game) and i get the points/credit for those stays.

Basically, points/stay credit are a debit paid by the franchisee of the particular location. That means when you stay at Hilton x and get 1k points and a night's stay credit, Hilton corporate credits the points and stay to your loyalty account and charges somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 to the owner of the location at which you stayed.

When the CAB (not travelliance or other third party) negotiates the rates for a hotel, they say (simplified):

"we want 50 rooms a night. What will you do to earn our business."

The group sales manager will say "$135 a night to continue your current benefits."

CAB: "We need lower."

Hotel: "Ok, if you change from a 30% discount to a 20% discount for food and go to 4/5/6 instead of 2/3/4 we can go to $125."

CAB: "Can't do lower? There's a hyatt place that wants our business."

Hotel: "Sure, $115 will get you the above benefits but we won't award stay credit, points, or lounge access."

CAB: "Deal."


That's why our discounts and treatment at hotels has gone through the floor in the last decade or so.

Again, I did not say this was a hill worth dying on, but it was a disappointment to see items like minimum discounts and points not included in the hotel language we got. We spend a third to a half of our nights of our careers in these places. I want recognition for that fact, in the form of points and discounts that don't merely reduce the price of my marriott burger to Michelin prices.

So, not a hill with dying on, and we certainly had some of the biggest fish to ever get fried in this last contract, but for hotel standards, which includes points and discounts along with cleanliness/other standards, this is absolutely a battle worth fighting.

The fact that this thread exists means that at least some people recognize this. How many other benefits that we now currently enjoy

have been labeled as "that's just the way it is". GK and now BJ have made it clear that this is just a job, not a cause or calling. Well, if it's just a job, and there's no psychic wage any more, I want to be compensated for all the stupid garbage that I have to deal with every day, including hotels. The minions who zoom into the crystal palace every day in their PJs are not my problem. They don't understand the stress and BS that is involved in sleeping in over a hundred different beds every year. For DECADES.

e6bpilot

On your last point I completely agree and was very disappointed that we did not go our own way on hotels, which is what I believe is one of the biggest drains on QOL for pilots. It is a huge part of our lives and the choice of a hotel can make or break a rest period.

I wasn't aware that other major airlines let pilots keep points and stay credits. If that's the case then yes, we should absolutely demand parity. It just doesn't move the needle for me when it comes to hotels. The company is paying for the hotels, not me. I get why they would negotiate out the points and stay credits if it made the room cheaper for them.

I simply don't care about hotel discounts. Maybe once every 2 months I will eat and drink in the hotel bar.

BusBoi

I'm at NK. Here it's hit or miss. Some hotels give something, some don't. Many will give a stay credit and other perks, but not points. I have Hilton. When I'm laying over at a Hilton property I'll ask the front desk if they "take Hilton numbers from crew". Many say no. Some say yes, but again, it may only be a stay credit. When I stayed recently at the Hitlon downtown CLT they took my number, gave me a stay credit, and also applied my $15 food/beverage credit (comes with gold status) at the hotel restaurant (in addition to my crew discount). It got me dinner basically for free.

waterskisabersw

Some do, some don't. But i caution you on this type of thinking of "if that's the case". We as a profession spend more time in hotels than almost any profession in the world. Just as the argument in C2020(4) was that long held norms in the industry need to change, this is a needed change needed as well. Just because another airline doesn't get this benefit doesn't mean it shouldn't be on the table.

Clearly the trend is to strip benefits and perks at the hotels that we stay at. I think that trend should stop. Yes it costs the company money, but too bad so sad, they don't have to stay hundreds of nights a year in a hotel.

They don't pay for rent in airport restaurants either, and yet we rightly fought for higher per diem rates to make sure that our forced life style on the road didn't burden us alone.

I've said before, I don't like slippery slope arguments, but this is a good example of a valid one. We don't pay or negotiate for hotels, but we are FORCED to stay in hotels because of the company's business model. Because of that I, and you and the rest of us, have a right to demand certain standards in what they negotiate. They pay for it, not me, so are LA quintas OK? Alright, they have waffles. Point for LQ, but you get the point. We need to, and are starting to, demand certain standards.

Them saving $10 a night on my room so that that I don't get to get credit for my hundreds of hotel stays per year is not acceptable to me.

I quite specifically said that this one issue did not cause me to throw the baby out with the bath water this last contract, but only that i was disappointed that it was not included.
I won't bring up the hotel bar/restaurant culture in our airline, but I will bring up the fact that some times, especially with our efficient and tight schedules, eating a quick dinner at the hotel might be our only option.

It's a self correcting problem. If we as crew members aren't eating at the hotel, then the CAB can demand numbers to show how much the discounts are actually costing the restaurant and negotiate rates accordingly. If we're there constantly, then they can justify a larger rate increase to offset the discount. If not, then they can't.

The bottom line is that the CAB doesn't care.

Our hotels suck, our discounts suck, we get no credit or recognition for having to stay in these hovels. My argument is that we should, and we should not subsidize the company's rate discounts by paying higher prices.

e6bpilot

All valid points. Good discussion.

waterskisabersw

Definitely a good discussion. Like I said, something to think about in the future as to what's possible.

meahPilot

This a flight attendant forum? Pilots that stand at a desk begging for hotel points at 3 star hotels are the same ones drinking airplane coffee out of paper cups. Live a little guys.

Timmay

Don't look at me. I bring my own cup from home and fill it in the galley