Another incident ?
07-03-2024, 12:43 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,254
I must have fallen into this job by an accidental fluke or maybe I know someone important, but I make mistakes all the time. 99.9 percent of the time, someone says "hey, e6bpilot, you forgot x" and I am like "oh crap, thank you!", but sometimes one slips through the cracks. Granted, I have yet to make the internet news, but maybe someday....
Taxi errors, touching tips, running something or someone over, misreading or not reading a notam, landing on a taxiway....these are all things that happen in this business due to human error. Our ultimate goal is to minimize those errors, but humans are gonna human. Maybe these guys really did just let er rip and go tearing off down the runway without a single regard to anyone but themselves, but I highly doubt it. I think maybe nobody here knows exactly what happened and a few of us who have apparently never done anything wrong in their lives are judging pretty harshly.
Somewhere along the line, processes broke down. Let's fix them and do better next time instead of throwing spears.
Taxi errors, touching tips, running something or someone over, misreading or not reading a notam, landing on a taxiway....these are all things that happen in this business due to human error. Our ultimate goal is to minimize those errors, but humans are gonna human. Maybe these guys really did just let er rip and go tearing off down the runway without a single regard to anyone but themselves, but I highly doubt it. I think maybe nobody here knows exactly what happened and a few of us who have apparently never done anything wrong in their lives are judging pretty harshly.
Somewhere along the line, processes broke down. Let's fix them and do better next time instead of throwing spears.
You do not belong on this forum. This place seems to be for the perfect, that do not make mistakes.
07-03-2024, 02:29 PM
#82
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,215
I too make mistakes every flight, little ones.
Its truly heartwarming to see how some minimize the mistakes made by TWO career pilots with likely 10’s of thousands of hours between them.
Not to mention 2 aircraft clocks, two wrist watches, two smart phones and two iPads.
All capable of showing the correct time.
Maybe a jump seater would have helped.
Or a check airman.
Or a CFI.
Bless your hearts.
Its truly heartwarming to see how some minimize the mistakes made by TWO career pilots with likely 10’s of thousands of hours between them.
Not to mention 2 aircraft clocks, two wrist watches, two smart phones and two iPads.
All capable of showing the correct time.
Maybe a jump seater would have helped.
Or a check airman.
Or a CFI.
Bless your hearts.
07-03-2024, 02:38 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,988
Maybe we could start by removing the 99.9 pct of Notams that are utterly irrelevant to airline operations, like the endless stream of warnings regarding 50 foot cranes located 6 miles from the airport. If you're at 50' AGL 6 miles from the airport, you've got bigger problems. I'm not defending this crew; I wasn't there and I have no idea what really happened, but will it take another Comair 5191 to jolt the FAA into producing a notam system that actually focuses on the most prominent threats?
07-03-2024, 05:44 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,771
Maybe we could start by removing the 99.9 pct of Notams that are utterly irrelevant to airline operations, like the endless stream of warnings regarding 50 foot cranes located 6 miles from the airport. If you're at 50' AGL 6 miles from the airport, you've got bigger problems. I'm not defending this crew; I wasn't there and I have no idea what really happened, but will it take another Comair 5191 to jolt the FAA into producing a notam system that actually focuses on the most prominent threats?
07-03-2024, 06:55 PM
#85
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,330
07-04-2024, 07:57 AM
#87
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 573
Tower was "scheduled" to open at 0545. When they actually open they announce it on tower frequency. Usually they are very punctual about this from my experience, but not always. So I guess it's possible that you could takeoff after the runway closure NOTAM expired but before tower was officially open. Still doesn't explain the crew's lack of CTAF radio procedures or misreading a clock.
07-04-2024, 10:38 AM
#88
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 84
Having an airport with a closed tower that early in the morning is just another threat to the crew. Having such a lackluster NOTAMs system in today's digital world is a tragedy.
You almost have to have a masters degree in decoding to figure out some of the information you're trying to dig for! Plus, airports with closed or no towers, are by enlarge an anomaly in our system.
I also think that these rediculous early reports can be a recipe for mistakes. We don't know what kind of day the crew had the day before. We don't know if the crew was in their preferred and correct circadian rhythm. I know I don't function the same at 0:200 as I do at 18:00.
I'm not trying to excuse their mistakes. But in this business there are those that have and those that will. I'm not above making some of the same mistakes without the guardrails we have in place. Those guardrails in my opinion are; proper rest, adequate resources, briefings, checklists, and experience. If any of those are not in line, things can go sideways..
You almost have to have a masters degree in decoding to figure out some of the information you're trying to dig for! Plus, airports with closed or no towers, are by enlarge an anomaly in our system.
I also think that these rediculous early reports can be a recipe for mistakes. We don't know what kind of day the crew had the day before. We don't know if the crew was in their preferred and correct circadian rhythm. I know I don't function the same at 0:200 as I do at 18:00.
I'm not trying to excuse their mistakes. But in this business there are those that have and those that will. I'm not above making some of the same mistakes without the guardrails we have in place. Those guardrails in my opinion are; proper rest, adequate resources, briefings, checklists, and experience. If any of those are not in line, things can go sideways..
07-04-2024, 11:08 AM
#89
weekends off? Nope...
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,018
Boston controller: “That runway was closed.”
Southwest pilot: “I thought it opened at :45. There was no markings or anywhere.”
Controller: “It did open at :45, but you departed at :42.”
Pilot: “That’s not what we’re showing, but ok.”
The clocks in the airplane get their time from the GPS. FR24 shows them airborne at 0543L. What clock were they looking at the was off by that much in this day and age? Not their ipad...
07-04-2024, 11:13 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 959
But thankfully we had time to change the acronym to "missions" - that was definitely the glaring issue with the NOTAM system.
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