Low flight over OKC
06-22-2024, 07:37 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,648
Nobody at SWA is winging it. My guess is that two pilots got pulled outside by something that they thought was the runway. OKC is a bit of a dark airport and coming from that direction it isn't the easiest to see, especially RW 13. Clearly something went wrong, they should have never been in that position, but thankfully they were saved by the systems in place to prevent such a disaster. I suspect we will hear more about it in the weeks to come, but I doubt that any of us have the full picture or even half the picture of what actually occurred.
I am not defending what happened. It was clearly not good. I am just saying that this isn't the first time two well meaning conscientious pilots got suckered into making a bad choice late at night on the last leg of a long day. Hopefully it will be the last for a while.
I am not defending what happened. It was clearly not good. I am just saying that this isn't the first time two well meaning conscientious pilots got suckered into making a bad choice late at night on the last leg of a long day. Hopefully it will be the last for a while.
06-22-2024, 08:07 AM
#52
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,016
If you want to make money, fly fast and crawl up the butt of the plane ahead of you. If tower calls the go, you gotta go...
06-22-2024, 08:13 AM
#53
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,016
Nobody at SWA is winging it. My guess is that two pilots got pulled outside by something that they thought was the runway. OKC is a bit of a dark airport and coming from that direction it isn't the easiest to see, especially RW 13. Clearly something went wrong, they should have never been in that position, but thankfully they were saved by the systems in place to prevent such a disaster. I suspect we will hear more about it in the weeks to come, but I doubt that any of us have the full picture or even half the picture of what actually occurred.
I am not defending what happened. It was clearly not good. I am just saying that this isn't the first time two well meaning conscientious pilots got suckered into making a bad choice late at night on the last leg of a long day. Hopefully it will be the last for a while.
I am not defending what happened. It was clearly not good. I am just saying that this isn't the first time two well meaning conscientious pilots got suckered into making a bad choice late at night on the last leg of a long day. Hopefully it will be the last for a while.
It's a thing, the long instrument runways are lit up like christmas trees while the short GA runway has maybe edge lights and a VASI.
From talking to friends, the days of the cowboy at SWA are 99.99% over, probaby no more than any other airline.
06-22-2024, 09:09 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 326
Don’t let a period stop you from becoming an expert. Keep reading beyond the first sentence. Especially the last two sentences.
“Do not accept an ATC approach speed assignment in excess of 170 kt closer than 5 miles from the end of the runway. This is to prevent ATC from assigning excessive speed clearances that compromise the stabilized approach. If the speed restriction is given “to the marker,” use 170 kt to the outer marker/FAS. If the speed restriction is given to a mileage fix,
use 170 kt to a 5-mile final.”
“Do not accept an ATC approach speed assignment in excess of 170 kt closer than 5 miles from the end of the runway. This is to prevent ATC from assigning excessive speed clearances that compromise the stabilized approach. If the speed restriction is given “to the marker,” use 170 kt to the outer marker/FAS. If the speed restriction is given to a mileage fix,
use 170 kt to a 5-mile final.”
06-22-2024, 10:59 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 84
My personal checklist.
Don't accept landing clearances on downwind, dog legs, where I may lose the runway or overshoot trying to intercept. Never at night, unless I'm assured of some kind of verified backup, especially airports outside of my base. I always ask for the longest runway available and double check things when using RNAV/GPS for backup. They can turn into distractions if not loaded correctly or the VNAV doesn't like something.
I don't get anxious looking for the airport/runway so that we can be cleared for the approach. I don't care, let the controller do their job and vector me to a safe point where I may better see it.
Don't accept landing clearances on downwind, dog legs, where I may lose the runway or overshoot trying to intercept. Never at night, unless I'm assured of some kind of verified backup, especially airports outside of my base. I always ask for the longest runway available and double check things when using RNAV/GPS for backup. They can turn into distractions if not loaded correctly or the VNAV doesn't like something.
I don't get anxious looking for the airport/runway so that we can be cleared for the approach. I don't care, let the controller do their job and vector me to a safe point where I may better see it.
06-22-2024, 11:10 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 326
My personal checklist.
Don't accept landing clearances on downwind, dog legs, where I may lose the runway or overshoot trying to intercept. Never at night, unless I'm assured of some kind of verified backup, especially airports outside of my base. I always ask for the longest runway available and double check things when using RNAV/GPS for backup. They can turn into distractions if not loaded correctly or the VNAV doesn't like something.
I don't get anxious looking for the airport/runway so that we can be cleared for the approach. I don't care, let the controller do their job and vector me to a safe point where I may better see it.
Don't accept landing clearances on downwind, dog legs, where I may lose the runway or overshoot trying to intercept. Never at night, unless I'm assured of some kind of verified backup, especially airports outside of my base. I always ask for the longest runway available and double check things when using RNAV/GPS for backup. They can turn into distractions if not loaded correctly or the VNAV doesn't like something.
I don't get anxious looking for the airport/runway so that we can be cleared for the approach. I don't care, let the controller do their job and vector me to a safe point where I may better see it.
”SWA 1001, #### tower, wind 350/10, runway 35 clear to land “
“#### tower, SWA 1001, I do not accept”
😂😂😂
06-22-2024, 11:14 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 751
Configured and on speed at the final approach fix? How much fuel is that per year? Why the need as it had nothing to do with this incident. They were 9 miles out! I once flew with a FO going into Dakar. Hired with 2000 hours of RJ time and no PIC. Set up nicely for a visual approach on downwind flaps 5, 180 knots in a 757. At that time the requirement was to intercept final above 500 feet. Tower clears us to land. We fly 3 miles past the airport when I mention it's behind us. Tower comes back up and says Delta, I clear you to land. FO says not comfortable with tight patterns. Passing the outer marker tower says, "Delta where are you going".
We turned base at 8 miles!
We turned base at 8 miles!
06-22-2024, 11:17 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,373
Configured and on speed at the final approach fix? How much fuel is that per year? Why the need as it had nothing to do with this incident. They were 9 miles out! I once flew with a FO going into Dakar. Hired with 2000 hours of RJ time and no PIC. Set up nicely for a visual approach on downwind flaps 5, 180 knots in a 757. At that time the requirement was to intercept final above 500 feet. Tower clears us to land. We fly 3 miles past the airport when I mention it's behind us. Tower comes back up and says Delta, I clear you to land. FO says not comfortable with tight patterns. Passing the outer marker tower says, "Delta where are you going".
We turned base at 8 miles!
We turned base at 8 miles!
06-22-2024, 11:20 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 326
06-22-2024, 01:45 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,254
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