Low flight over OKC
06-24-2024, 05:26 AM
#101
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Posts: 4,802
I'm basing this off what I've seen several times, typically from the most senior captains. PF is assigned altitude like 3000. Re-cruises the box. Airport in sight, cleared for visual. PF hits direct to the last point prior to runway and says, "We're visual, setting tdze (or zeros). PF hits altitude intervene and vnav goes into descent mode and immediately sets FUM speed. PF says, why'd it so that? So he hits speed intervene and dials 250 knots. Airplane goes into idle descent mode.
06-24-2024, 05:29 AM
#102
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Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 513
Absolutely false. Any swa pilot who is not a desk flyer flies non-precision (and precision rnav) approaches all the time, as they are prevalent at many of our busy airports.
RNP 22L in mdw, RNAV 36L mco, RNP into all runways in DEN BNA and AUS, RNP 27 SAN, RNP DCA, RNAV visuals into LGA, RNAV into DAL, RNAV 19 in MSY, LDA/RNAV 35 in SLC just to name a few.
Now, before you say RNP is precision not NPA: functionally on the FMC/MCO, they are identical. Every swa pilot is intimately familiar with how to fly an RNAV approach. And every ILS is subject to the same risks of going to the last fix/runway from xx miles our, as APPR won't capture GS until LOC intercept, so VNAV LNAV will function identically up until GS capture.
RNP 22L in mdw, RNAV 36L mco, RNP into all runways in DEN BNA and AUS, RNP 27 SAN, RNP DCA, RNAV visuals into LGA, RNAV into DAL, RNAV 19 in MSY, LDA/RNAV 35 in SLC just to name a few.
Now, before you say RNP is precision not NPA: functionally on the FMC/MCO, they are identical. Every swa pilot is intimately familiar with how to fly an RNAV approach. And every ILS is subject to the same risks of going to the last fix/runway from xx miles our, as APPR won't capture GS until LOC intercept, so VNAV LNAV will function identically up until GS capture.
06-24-2024, 05:31 AM
#103
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
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Posts: 387
My cat told me that it was a new hire and a captain that retires tomorrow. The FO spun in zeroes and put it in vert speed with -3000 set and then said "YOLO" before getting out their phone to text their mom so that she could come pick them up from the airport because that's how they did it at SkyWest.
06-24-2024, 05:33 AM
#104
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,648
I'm basing this off what I've seen several times, typically from the most senior captains. PF is assigned altitude like 3000. Re-cruises the box. Airport in sight, cleared for visual. PF hits direct to the last point prior to runway and says, "We're visual, setting tdze (or zeros). PF hits altitude intervene and vnav goes into descent mode and immediately sets FUM speed. PF says, why'd it so that? So he hits speed intervene and dials 250 knots. Airplane goes into idle descent mode.
06-24-2024, 06:05 AM
#105
Spikes the Koolaid
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 737
Posts: 403
and yet they are the source of most of your unstabilized approaches. I'm sure you are the ace of the base Chuck but for us normies out here that are tired, can't see good at night, new to the industry, don't have squat for experience, they are tricky sometimes. Keep atta boy-ing yourself on your precision NPA skills.
If flying one of the TWO types of instrument approaches we fly (since all can be flown in either LNAV VNAV or APPR) without getting to 500' above the ground 10 miles from the airport makes me ace of the base, then I guess you were right to call me Chuck.
Honestly, if you can't, or consider them dangerous or out of the ordinary you have no business being in any 121 operation.
06-24-2024, 08:11 AM
#106
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Posts: 19,588
06-24-2024, 08:20 AM
#107
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,195
Nonsense. I'm glad our safety teams both company and union put more thought into their anaylses than you do. There are tons of factors that go into all of our common unstable approaches that get published in ASAP, FDAP, Safety, and union periodicals, and while approach type is taken into consideration, it is never the reason why a certain runway/approach has higher instances of unstable approaches.
If flying one of the TWO types of instrument approaches we fly (since all can be flown in either LNAV VNAV or APPR) without getting to 500' above the ground 10 miles from the airport makes me ace of the base, then I guess you were right to call me Chuck.
Honestly, if you can't, or consider them dangerous or out of the ordinary you have no business being in any 121 operation.
If flying one of the TWO types of instrument approaches we fly (since all can be flown in either LNAV VNAV or APPR) without getting to 500' above the ground 10 miles from the airport makes me ace of the base, then I guess you were right to call me Chuck.
Honestly, if you can't, or consider them dangerous or out of the ordinary you have no business being in any 121 operation.
--91 corporate pilot
06-24-2024, 10:11 AM
#108
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 841
06-24-2024, 11:57 AM
#110
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,760
Because we didn't purchase Integrated Approach Navigation. So to fly an LNAV/VNAV approach, you need to set a lower altitude or it'll level off at the MCP-set altitude. Once you're at least 300 feet below missed approach altitude, you can set that and it'll continue the VNAV descent, but you can't do it earlier or it'll level off.
Dude..... seriously...
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