The end game...
11-12-2023, 10:37 AM
#41
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Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 647
So you don't think we should get every other ask first before "fixing" year 1-5 pay? I mean... I guess you at least admit to that stupid idea.
Last edited by MudhammedCJ; 11-12-2023 at 10:55 AM.
11-12-2023, 10:41 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Aug 2023
Posts: 101
FO pay is a % of CA pay. The first 5 years that % is going up. Don't worry everything else will also be taken care of. The straight up demons that were running swapa years ago are gone so everyone gets their fair slice. Also TA2 was complete garbage, wtf voted that thing in with all the horrible work rules and disability coverage. Shame on you clowns, you are the reason we are where we are at now.
11-12-2023, 10:43 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 633
In 2016, we were hemmorhaging 1st year guys, so while everyone got 15% snap-up, the 1st year rate snap-up was 35% IIRC, and the interesting part was that it was the company's idea, not SWAPA's. Stacking the pay increases to year 1-5 is arguably their 50.1% solution given how many we've hired in the past few years. The company is playing the numbers game. They aren't stupid, but they think we are. They're looking to bribe year 1-5 guys and take a few yessies from the top of the pay scale and they've got their 50.1%
The year 1 through 5 guys need to realize that by the time we get the next contract, they'll be at the top of the payscale, their career value sold for very short term gain but long term loss for them, and this time, without the leverage we have right now. This is not to say their pay shouldn't be raised substantially... not by a long shot. But it should not be at the expense of the top of the pay scale range because that's where they're gonna spend anywhere from 2 to 3+ decades. In this environment, it shouldn't an either/or.... with the leverage we have, it should be a grand slam.
Finally, yes... the co-terminal stuff was indeed sprinkles. This is the steak now and this is what matters. If the final rates are "industry-leading 737 rates" but lagging A321XLR, 767 rates, etc, I won't even bother reading the rest before voting no. Put us on ice, DGAF... The entire compensation package needs to be the grand slam, or it's an easy no.
The year 1 through 5 guys need to realize that by the time we get the next contract, they'll be at the top of the payscale, their career value sold for very short term gain but long term loss for them, and this time, without the leverage we have right now. This is not to say their pay shouldn't be raised substantially... not by a long shot. But it should not be at the expense of the top of the pay scale range because that's where they're gonna spend anywhere from 2 to 3+ decades. In this environment, it shouldn't an either/or.... with the leverage we have, it should be a grand slam.
Finally, yes... the co-terminal stuff was indeed sprinkles. This is the steak now and this is what matters. If the final rates are "industry-leading 737 rates" but lagging A321XLR, 767 rates, etc, I won't even bother reading the rest before voting no. Put us on ice, DGAF... The entire compensation package needs to be the grand slam, or it's an easy no.
11-12-2023, 10:50 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 647
FO pay is a % of CA pay. The first 5 years that % is going up. Don't worry everything else will also be taken care of. The straight up demons that were running swapa years ago are gone so everyone gets their fair slice. Also TA2 was complete garbage, wtf voted that thing in with all the horrible work rules and disability coverage. Shame on you clowns, you are the reason we are where we are at now.
11-12-2023, 11:17 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,793
I figured people would come out of the woodwork. BTW, I voted no for that POS TA. And for the one before it too. What were you flying at the time? Your high chair? If it wasn't for the likes of me, we would have been stuck with TA1 (while I was trying for TA3). Switch to decaf.🤯
11-12-2023, 11:30 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 647
You mean this part?
"wtf voted that thing in with all the horrible work rules and disability coverage. Shame on you clowns, you are the reason we are where we are at now."
Maybe I took it the wrong way. My read was that he was blaming all those that came before him. If not, I apologize to him. If not, I'm just saying there have been a contingent of people here who have been fighting for a decent contract for decades. Unfortunately, we've been in the minority.
"wtf voted that thing in with all the horrible work rules and disability coverage. Shame on you clowns, you are the reason we are where we are at now."
Maybe I took it the wrong way. My read was that he was blaming all those that came before him. If not, I apologize to him. If not, I'm just saying there have been a contingent of people here who have been fighting for a decent contract for decades. Unfortunately, we've been in the minority.
11-12-2023, 11:35 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 682
11-12-2023, 12:25 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,189
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