Typical schedules/ QOL at SWA
10-02-2023, 07:34 PM
#11
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Posts: 10
That's just min guarantee and that applies to everybody every month no matter what.
Many carriers (and formerly SWA) work under a monthly reserve guarantee based on the number of reserve days you are scheduled that month. What they used to do is work you like rented mule right up to where your monthly pay bumps that guarantee and then sit you, so you would provide them with flying all month and then cheap insurance the rest of the month. It was a great system (for them). Now we work under a daily guarantee, which can actually make reserve pay quite well. It was definitely the biggest work rule improvement of the last contract.
Many carriers (and formerly SWA) work under a monthly reserve guarantee based on the number of reserve days you are scheduled that month. What they used to do is work you like rented mule right up to where your monthly pay bumps that guarantee and then sit you, so you would provide them with flying all month and then cheap insurance the rest of the month. It was a great system (for them). Now we work under a daily guarantee, which can actually make reserve pay quite well. It was definitely the biggest work rule improvement of the last contract.
New hire, day 1 soon. First time 121. Still nowhere near figuring out all this rig and premium stuff
10-02-2023, 07:37 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,671
You have plenty of time to figure that out. Once you get your legs under you flying the line, start picking people's brains. Your new hire class will also have a group chat and someone in there will become the expert in manipulating the system and spread the knowledge.
10-02-2023, 07:43 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,153
For example, our min pay for a single day trip is 6.5. No matter how much you block, you're gonna get at least 6.5 for a turn here. A "typical" turn may block 5 hrs to get that 6.5 TFP, and you can use that ratio as a fairly standard measure.
So, if you see a turn on the trade board that blocks 8.2 and pays 10, you may be thinking SCORE, right? If you're going for max pay, it's actually the wrong trip to take because it gets you closer to monthly block limits than other options. Assuming your home life lets you work 2 days instead of just 1, you may be better off taking 2 of those trips that block 5 and pay 6.5 since then you'd block a total of 10 for a total pay of 13, a better ratio for maximizing pay.
HOWEVER, there are "crappy" trips that may have only 2 short legs so you're blocking 2.5 to get that same min 6.5 pay. That ratio is GREAT! You can do that all month and get paid a ton without hitting block limits, at the cost of spending more days away from home of course. Even better, you may find a trip that has a gross 12+ hr duty period and pays 8-10, but it only blocks 4-5 because the last leg or two is a long deadhead home. Or maybe the trip starts with a deadhead. Those are also great for maximizing pay without hitting block limits.
Another way to maximize block to pay ratio is to bid into chaos. Some routes simply cancel or re-route more than others. See a hurricane in the news? Figure out when that sucker is gonna make landfall and pick up literally anything that flies into the path of the hurricane. You're almost guaranteed to either have your legs cancelled, get deadheads all over the system, or get re-routed at premium rates. I talked to a guy who does this and he was averaging 160 TFP/month, at the cost of spending 20-25 days away from home each month of course.
I think Spirit was "better" at flexibility when I was working there. At SWA you can't trade with the company without both taking and giving back a trip, but at Spirit you can pick up trips from the open time pot without making a "trade", and if they have lots of reserves over your trip's footprint you can also drop a trip back into open time without picking anything up. That's an open time feature we don't have at SWA. We also can't trade reserves with the company, although we can between pilots. I think with some work it's more straightforward to get more *pay* with more work at SWA, but if your definition of flexibility is limited only to the days you work and not the resulting pay total then spirit is arguably more flexible for schedule management. Spirit also has a dedicated volunteer system that encourages pilots to sign up to be called for short-notice trips that pay a premium pay multiplier. Spirit also can sweeten the deal by offering move-up, premium pay rates, and best of all if they really need you to fly a particular trip they can pull a trip later in the month WITH PAY to restore your days off. I don't know if any other airline has that option even though it's really "zero cost" to the airline since they only have to offer something like that when the alternative is cancelling the flight entirely.
10-02-2023, 08:09 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,994
Wow! All of this is golden information to have. Thank you, folks, for the time you took to post thoughtful and detailed responses. This is super helpful for anyone considering SWA.
10-02-2023, 08:11 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,994
My God, that's actually kind of genius. I've never heard of that but it makes perfect sense.
10-02-2023, 08:11 PM
#16
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
10-02-2023, 09:59 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
10-03-2023, 03:59 AM
#18
weekends off? Nope...
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,021
And yes, bid into the storm. You’ll make way more than sitting at home on your couch.
10-03-2023, 07:59 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Kinda but it's complicated. If you look at our awarded lines, yes. We fly fewer days but they're dense. What you don't always see is that because our pay rates have been lagging the industry forever, most pilots don't ever fly just their line. Yes you may get awarded a min-guarantee line with 18 days off but that puts you anywhere from 15%-40% behind peer pay for "flying your line". Fortunately at SWA It's relatively simple to add extra flying to your schedule which can take us up to and beyond the paychecks other pilots get at other airlines. But to do so, we end up flying more of those densely packed days. A SWA pilot merely flying his line will get paid less than our peers at other airlines. A SWA pilot who hustles and flies his butt off and plays schedule games to maximize pay while staying right at or under legality limits can often make more than a peer at another airline. But they'll be working their butt off to do so. So... yea. At minimum guarantee we fly fewer days, those days are longer, and our paychecks will be smaller. We can catch up, but then we're flying the same or more number of days and those days are still very densely packed.
Senior pilots can cherry-pick lighter workloads (managing block to pay ratio) and search out soft pay like deadheads, or "bid to chaos" looking for premium pay multipliers that result from re-routes and other changes that happen with flights in and around bad weather. You can just about double your pay for a 4-day if you pick up a trip scheduled into florida when a hurricane is about to hit and may spend a lot of time getting paid to sit in the back deadheading, for example. That kind of expertise comes with time and seniority. If you don't closely manage block time, we bump up against FAR limits right around 120TFP/month. If you manage block time by only picking up low-block trips, trips with DH legs, or bidding (and getting) premium trips, you can hit 140-150 TFP with fairly regular success. Graduate level schedule fiddling can get you 180-200 TFP/month but you're gonna work for it, both in time at your computer looking for high pay low block trips, commuting all over the system to get those trips, and an awful lot of time away from home working. But it can absolutely be done and some of our company execs are absolutely horrified that a pilot who is away from home 25 days/month can make more they get in base pay (not counting the usual exec bonuses). Somehow SWA execs think all we do is sit around and complain and magically we make double our minimum guarantee monthly pay. Our execs are almost all managers not leaders, and their attitude about scornfully demeaning our hardest working (and therefore highest paid) pilots is legendary.
Senior pilots can cherry-pick lighter workloads (managing block to pay ratio) and search out soft pay like deadheads, or "bid to chaos" looking for premium pay multipliers that result from re-routes and other changes that happen with flights in and around bad weather. You can just about double your pay for a 4-day if you pick up a trip scheduled into florida when a hurricane is about to hit and may spend a lot of time getting paid to sit in the back deadheading, for example. That kind of expertise comes with time and seniority. If you don't closely manage block time, we bump up against FAR limits right around 120TFP/month. If you manage block time by only picking up low-block trips, trips with DH legs, or bidding (and getting) premium trips, you can hit 140-150 TFP with fairly regular success. Graduate level schedule fiddling can get you 180-200 TFP/month but you're gonna work for it, both in time at your computer looking for high pay low block trips, commuting all over the system to get those trips, and an awful lot of time away from home working. But it can absolutely be done and some of our company execs are absolutely horrified that a pilot who is away from home 25 days/month can make more they get in base pay (not counting the usual exec bonuses). Somehow SWA execs think all we do is sit around and complain and magically we make double our minimum guarantee monthly pay. Our execs are almost all managers not leaders, and their attitude about scornfully demeaning our hardest working (and therefore highest paid) pilots is legendary.
A best I can tell from what I've learned about the TFP system, first-year can expect pay in the $80-90k region, assuming min guarantee and the current contract rates?
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