Grumpyaviator

It seems just about everyone I’m talking to is a no on TA1 already.

Hopefully TA2 will be industry-leading stellar.

Mozam

The company is so out of touch , I would hope SWAPA would not put out a subpar TA that the company would offer .

Adam C letter to the pilot group shows just how out of touch they are .

ZapBrannigan

I really feel like it does a disservice to the SWAPA people who have been pouring blood, sweat, and tears into this negotiation to make a determination like that without even seeing the final product. Wait until there’s actually a TA, evaluate it on what’s actually in it and not internet speculation, then vote based on what you and your family think of that final product.

Saying “I’m voting NO” today is like your child’s teacher saying they’re going to fail the kid on his next test because however he does, she is sure he can do better.

Or like a coach telling a kid thats been hustling in practice and improving, that he’s just going to sit on the bench next game because he doesn’t have what it takes.

Give them a shot before you make a decision.

Grumpyaviator

Personally, I’m voting no without looking at it. It’s not just a matter of what can meet my family’s needs but “value adding”, just like any business decision. You always look at ways to get more revenue from a venture. Whatever they present the first time can always have value added to it.

For them to drag it out for years and expect a quick conclusion when they throw less than what is actually possible on the table is rubbish.

WHACKMASTER

The irony of you calling anyone else a “divisive a$$hat” is remarkable. Since we’re doing facts:

- It’s “AirTran” and not “ValuJet” as that merger happened in 1997 (a full five years before I ever showed up on property). So you can stop insinuating that SWA bought a “scab” airline as there were only about 30 of them that were brought over of the 1737 of us. We knew who they were and held their past against them just like the rest of the industry. Oh, and btw…SWA was not scab-free either so don’t give me this holier than thou crap.

- There was only one captain that I know of that went to SWA before the announcement of the buyout. His initials are GB. Feel free to educate me about any others that you know of. Oh and btw, as for FOs, most of them (and I mean the vast majority) had no interest in going to SWA, but of course I’m sure they were just lying to me, right?

- I don’t know where this “We bought you and we’re your saviors” attitude comes from, but let me let you in on a little secret…WE WEREN’T IN NEED OF SAVING! We had made it through the 2008 crisis and were making $ again when Uncle Gary decided to buy us, and perhaps your mind has selective memory but it was to eliminate a competitor that had a superior product to SWA (truly, not hard to beat), valuable slots at key airports, an established ATL presence, and was getting to be a thorn in his side. Let’s not reinvent history and lump AirTran in with ATA, Champion, etc. because that most certainly was not the case. Oh, and just to let you in on another little “secret”…when you do that, we REALLY take exception to it as we loathed the SWA exceptionalism back then and still hate it now, so it’s probably best to not reinvent history like you seem to do in your head.

- Along those lines: Airline A buys Airline B. Airline A has about 3X the fleet size that Airline B has but has ZERO aircraft on order while Airline B has one third the fleet size but has 50 737s on order and 50 options. Airline A’s pilots face an indefinite upgrade as retirements are few and no aircraft are on order. Airline A buys Airline B and Airline A’s management cooperates with SWAPA to blackmail, threaten, and coerce Airline B’s pilots into accepting an SLI that sees Airline A’s pilots take all of the captain seats from Airline B’s pilots while handing Airline A’s pilots get an average 8% relative seniority gain while the B side gets an average 22% loss with some losing up to 35% and four years DOH. *all facts*

- I like to think that I can look at things objectively. That said, if the AirTran/SWA thing never happened, today AirTran would be in the the JetBlue, Spirit, F9 peer group, so yes our long-term careers are probably better off at SWA. The problem is that RSW pilots couldn’t (and some still can’t as evidenced by you) admit that it was a $h!t deal for most of us in the short to medium term. That’s the rub. It’s the outright disdain, arrogance, and SWA exceptionalism that was so prevalent when the whole forced marriage was happening and it’s obviously still present in some today. When you look down in disdain at someone, don’t expect them to return the LUV.

It’s a little too late to walk your words back now:

“Says a guy who clearly couldn't get hired anywhere else so he pinned his career hopes on ValuJet. Now there's a strong union shop filled with hardcore unionists from Eastern....

As for getting acquired, perhaps you would have preferred to have gone by the way of ATA, Aloha or Champion.... my heart bleeds for you”

🔥👇

WHACKMASTER

And if you thought that was long-winded, keep it coming because I WILL refute any and all rewritten history when it comes to this topic and WILL highlight any and all SWA Exceptionalism when needed. What else ya got?

🔥👇

RJSAviator76

Whack, we can go around and around in circles. You are not going to convince me that AirTran was a peer to Southwest, and that you got shafted in this merger. Yeah, you might have taken it in the shorts for the very short term in exchange for the medium to long term much better future and a far superior career value. That's FAIR. In some ways, that's more than fair. I can understand wanting everything and the kitchen sink, but at some point, reality has to set in. You will never be able to convince me that your career was wronged with this merger. Your ego was hurt. Your wallet and your future were secured. And if you think AirTran was fine long term, that's the line spouted by the very few of you... The most are glad it happened as they're far better off than they could have hoped to be. And in any case... again... for the umpteenth millionth time, IT IS OVER.

Walking back comments? I will do no such thing, and especially not to some miserable FUD spreader like the clown who wrote this:

Noconcessions

This is fun. The thread is about coming here. I'm a firm no to someone with other choices. My 'Tran reference was strictly to show with limited time remaining, I really do not have a lot in the game. Full retro though of course. Ready to strike!

symbian simian

"Beats starting over on the bottom, doesn't it? You make a great argument that AT should have indeed been killed off instead, all employees all laid off and given preferential interviews (maybe), similar to the treatment ATA pilots got."

SWAPA brother/sister my @$$

RJSAviator76

Ah... love the context. Go cry over on NK boards.