Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

The argument for TFP is that it benefits the pilots on longer flights. BS. It obfuscates what we are actually paid and makes it difficult to compare our pay against our colleagues at OAL. We could easily retain the benefits of TFP on longer flights by adding a leg length multiplier if that’s what they want to do, but time is long past for us to join the real world of dollars per hour and send the Schrute Bucks to the dustbin of airline history.

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

The argument for TFP is that it benefits the pilots on longer flights. BS. It obfuscates what we are actually paid and makes it difficult to compare our pay against our colleagues at OAL. We could easily retain the benefits of TFP on longer flights by adding a leg length multiplier if that’s what they want to do, but time is long past for us to join the real world of dollars per hour and send the Schrute Bucks to the dustbin of airline history.

Originally Posted by Lewbronski

For example, despite what RJS and FlyGuy say, 4-leg days are not uncommon, and five- and six-leg days do occur.

Originally Posted by Lewbronski

Truth.

Since I've been here, every TA and major issue to vote on has been accompanied by an enormous sales job from SWAPA, up to an including TA2 from last cycle. The coup de grâce on that one was our former union president essentially guaranteeing that it would pass by explaining, "I'm not telling anyone how to vote. But I'm voting yes." That's the guy who many here still lionize and who ushered in the substandard contract we now work under.

Whenever the TA comes, it will be difficult for SWAPA BOD members, exec's, and staff, many whom have put years into crafting the TA to not look upon it, at least subconsciously, as their baby. That always has and will make them defensive and touchy in response to criticism of the brain child they have birthed. It has been like that every single time regardless of how "different" SWAPA claims to be.

There always has been a ginormous wave of, "What? You don't trust SWAPA?", from the membership in response to any questioning or criticism of whatever the agreement is in question. Age 65 was like that. The -800 SL for no additional pay was like that. The SL for FAR 117 was like that. And every TA has been like that.

Originally Posted by waterskisabersw

Exactly. And unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), the company has shown they'll just change the formula to negate the benefit that shows up on longer flights.

A benefit that that only shows up when you hit a certain metric, and then is changed when you actually hit that metric, is no benefit at all.

Originally Posted by JohnnyTexas

Wouldn’t having a leg length multiplier be effectively creating your own new TFP formula? We would still need a conversion factor when comparing ourselves to other airlines which is what I thought you were complaining about.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

I actually have a 5-leg day next month. Granted, it's flying interisland and it's 9:15 duty day. That's about the rare occasion I'll fly more than 3 legs a day. On the mainland, I generally don't see 4 legs nearly as often. Lew, you must be a walking jinx... you always seem to catch the crappy end of the stick. How is that?

Originally Posted by Cyio

At least at my base and seniority level, 4 legs is the most common, typically on day 2 and 3. In fact I have way more 4 leg days than anything else.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

ELITT can be your friend if you don't like more legs. I generally don't care for doing more than 3 and prefer 2 or 1. ETOPS flying can be nice in that regard. Having said that, I don't think 4 or 5 legs interisland is nearly as crappy as even 3 or 4 on the mainland, but then again... personal choices.

I know I've generally been able to stay away from 4 leg days on the mainland, except if I got something like that at premium.

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

Thats why in my imaginary dream world, the entirety of any TA would be released to the pilot group WITHOUT pay rates for five days, before adding pay rates. Pilot groups in general, but especially this one are blinded by rates and miss the meat and potatoes of a CBA. Five days with no rates and maybe they’d actually read the darned thing before they are distracted by something shiny. I’m about QOL, retirement, sick and LTD, then after that I’ll take a look at pay.